# Handgun ban...how would you do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316 "2012-11-27T22:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/101 "2012-11-28T19:26:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m very proud that I have never touched a gun in my life and don’t intend to. So I don’t know about the technical stuff. We’d have to regulate the bullet supply of course. These details can be worked out over time. . “I know nothing at all about this other than it scares me so I want to tear up the Bill of Rights, and put millions of my fellow Americans in prison- just to make me feel a tiny bit safer. “:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/102 "2012-11-28T19:28:04Z")
> [@Chicago's gun death tally vs. Chicago's gun laws](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicagos-gun-death-tally-vs-chicagos-gun-laws/642041/142): > > Is the expectation that you’d make handguns illegal throughout the entire country, and then…what? They would all go away? Would you expect everyone to turn them in? How would you prevent new ones from coming in from Mexico or even Canada? Is the expectation that if you banned handguns, that no one would want them any more, and thus they would disappear? I believe that the desire for more firepower doesn’t really go away, so there is no reason to expect a freely chosen self-limitation to the arms race between “criminals,” “law enforcement,” and “law-abiding citizens.” (Or alternatively, since this is the USA, the “race arms race” between “persecuted” blacks and “law and order” whites, who fear and demonize each other.) The law is not there to say, “Do what you were going to do anyway.” The law is there to act as a limit on people’s behavior where they would not limit themselves. Guns would be collected by law enforcement and melted down. As for, “new ones from coming in from Mexico or even Canada,” at the moment the bigger issue is the USA exporting illegal guns _to_ Mexico. If we get to the point that Mexico has more of a gun trade than we do, I guess we’ll have to cope. Personally, I’d be glad to stop the flow of illegal arms to Mexican organized crime, something the USA seems unwilling or unable to do effectively at present. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/103 "2012-11-28T19:37:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “I know nothing at all about this other than it scares me so I want to tear up the Bill of Rights, and put millions of my fellow Americans in prison- just to make me feel a tiny bit safer. “:rolleyes: The first thing that needs to happen is the education of all people involved about guns: handguns, rifles and the mythical assault rifles. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/104 "2012-11-28T19:38:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “I know nothing at all about this other than it scares me so I want to tear up the Bill of Rights, and put millions of my fellow Americans in prison- just to make me feel a tiny bit safer. “:rolleyes: The Bill of Rights doesn’t have to be taken as a perfect unchanging whole. If we analyze it and judge it critically, we can refine it. We really could modify the First Amendment enough to give us tools to fight political advertising _quid pro quo_, and ditch the Second Amendment altogether, and still have other protections. Even new ones for that matter! If we are so savage that all that protects us from abusive arbitrary power is a superstitious belief in a divinely ordained Bill of Rights which must not see one jot nor tittle changed; then we’re incompetent to manage a democracy. (As I have probably said elsewhere, I pretty much believe that we really are this mentally incompetent and superstitious, and I wish a takeover by benign tyranny were possible; but absent such a possibility, I have to try to make democracy work as best I can. That means trying, however futilely, to educate people beyond blind faith in old politicians mistaken for god-prophets.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/105 "2012-11-28T19:46:08Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > The first thing that needs to happen is the education of all people involved about guns: handguns, rifles and the mythical assault rifles. :Sigh: Yes, education about guns is important. Too many people seem to think they have “stopping power,” or can knock someone down, or kill a person instantly like a Star Trek phaser. A gun is a long-range hole punch powered by fireworks. That’s it. At long range you’re likely to miss your target. At short range you can kill someone effectively, but they may be able to grapple you and counter this. Shoot me at short range and before the blood loss gets me I may close on you, disarm you, and make you eat one of your own slugs. Tell me again how it keeps you safe. Assault rifles aren’t mythical. The term is used loosely for various full-auto rifles, and more narrowly for a use-defined category of automatic rifle in US war doctrine. > **[Assault rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle)** > > An assault rifle is a select fire rifle that uses an intermediate-rifle cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles were first put into mass production and accepted into widespread service during World War II. The first assault rifle to see major usage was the German StG 44, a development of the earlier Mkb 42. While immediately after World War II, NATO countries were equipped with battle rifles, the development of the M16 rifle during the Vietnam War prompted the The term assault rifl... ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/106 "2012-11-28T19:51:27Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] Guns would be collected by law enforcement and melted down. [/QUOTE] And illegal drugs can be confiscated and burned or otherwise destroyed. Simple. > [@](#): > > As for, “new ones from coming in from Mexico or even Canada,” at the moment the bigger issue is the USA exporting illegal guns to Mexico. If we get to the point that Mexico has more of a gun trade than we do, I guess we’ll have to cope. Personally, I’d be glad to stop the flow of illegal arms to Mexican organized crime, something the USA seems unwilling or unable to do effectively at present. At the moment, guns are relatively cheap and abundant in the US, with no one trying to ban them across the entire continent. I imagine, though, that if that changed, without that fundamental shift in attitude by the populace, that this would no longer be the case. In which case, illegal guns coming in from Mexico or Canada would be a serious issue. After all, if there was money in it, someone is going to be interested in making that money. And at a guess, there would be plenty of money in it, in about a thousand years when the current supply of guns have been rounded up and melted down. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/107 "2012-11-28T19:52:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The Bill of Rights doesn’t have to be taken as a perfect unchanging whole. If we analyze it and judge it critically, we can refine it. We really could modify the First Amendment enough to give us tools to fight political advertising _quid pro quo_, and ditch the Second Amendment altogether, and still have other protections. Even new ones for that matter! > > If we are so savage that all that protects us from abusive arbitrary power is a superstitious belief in a divinely ordained Bill of Rights which must not see one jot nor tittle changed; then we’re incompetent to manage a democracy. > > (As I have probably said elsewhere, I pretty much believe that we really are this mentally incompetent and superstitious, and I wish a takeover by benign tyranny were possible; but absent such a possibility, I have to try to make democracy work as best I can. That means trying, however futilely, to educate people beyond blind faith in old politicians mistaken for god-prophets.) Thank you for this and well said. Some of us have raised the Founding Fathers to mythic, all-wise and all-knowing figures. They were creatures of their times, as are we. They were aristocrats of an 18th century agrarian society, not all of their doctrine is relevant to a post-industrial 21st century society. Thus all this speculation of what was meant by the authors and all this poring over the Federalist Papers is quite as irrelevant as reading the hieroglyphs in King Tut’s tomb. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/108 "2012-11-28T19:52:41Z")
I’m not getting what the ban on handguns is supposed to accomplish. People will still have rifles and shotguns even if the millions of handguns in existence can be collected and illegal sales of new ones can be stopped (which I think is doubtful). What problem created by handguns will be eliminated instead of continuing with different guns? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/109 "2012-11-28T20:03:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Thank you for this and well said. Some of us have raised the Founding Fathers to mythic, all-wise and all-knowing figures. They were creatures of their times, as are we. They were aristocrats of an 18th century agrarian society, not all of their doctrine is relevant to a post-industrial 21st century society. Thus all this speculation of what was meant by the authors and all this poring over the Federalist Papers is quite as irrelevant as reading the hieroglyphs in King Tut’s tomb. Please take discussions of the Second to the current Second Amendment thread if you would. Your, er, point here has already been addressed there multiple times…and addressed in myriad threads on that subject in the past as well. In THIS thread, please discuss how you’d ban handguns (or guns in general). You can, of course, discuss how you’d get rid of the Second, but I’d rather not hijack this discussion into that topic, especially when there is already a discussion about that going on in another thread that’s more suited to it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/110 "2012-11-28T21:27:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think that there would be significant opposition is a given, unless there is some sort of fundamental shift in attitudes by the majority of Americans. I’m not suggesting that the military and/or police would mutiny or threaten the stability of the government (that could happen, but wasn’t what I was getting at)…merely not enforce the laws with any great fervor. Think about your hypothetical for a second though. In this fictional US, the law was legally and Constitutionally changed to ban handguns. That right there tells me there’s been a huge shift in cultural mores. Did people call for a handgun ban? Did all politicians suddenly have a change of heart? Does the NRA still exist? I don’t think you can simply say “Handguns are banned, but everything else stays the same”. In my response, I assume that there would be a significant number of people supporting this law, to the point where it can’t be ignored that because the law has passed, most people want this, and therefore would have a stake in its enforcement. > [@XT](#): > > My own take on this, FWIW, is that it would be impossible in the current political climate to enact a meaningful ban on even a subset of any given ‘firearms’ category (i.e. even trying to ban completely certain TYPES of handguns across the board in the US would be impossible, let alone all handguns in the US). Trying to put heavy fines or even criminal sentences on the possession of a handgun would certainly have some results, but I think less results than criminalizing illegal drugs has had…i.e. people still do it, despite the risks and the fact that it’s illegal. And I think in the case of handguns, you would see a larger percentage of the population being willing to do something they know is illegal, because for one thing they know that the scale is too much to seriously enforce (you simply can’t lock up millions of otherwise law abiding citizens…and even fines would be overwhelming to enforce in a meaningful way. Make them too harsh and you will get a huge backlash…make them too easy and folks will simply take the chance and pay the fine if they are caught…sort of like the speeding laws). I would say this would have the opposite net effect when compared to drugs, that it would be much MORE effective than criminalizing illegal drugs. Yes, drugs illegal and people still do them, but drugs are much easier to keep, move, and make. Most people can buy a heat lamp and some fertilizer, but most people cannot manufacture the parts necessary to put together a working gun. Plus, drugs are a consumable and you always need more of it if you’re using or selling. With guns, only the ammo is really a consumable, so there would be less of a market for new guns than there would be for ammo/drugs comparatively. And of course, even when you factor in smuggling, you can’t just stick a glock up your colon and walk past security so easily. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/111 "2012-11-28T21:50:43Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Seriously, why is something like that a source of pride to you? Perhaps he’s proud that he’s never had to be placed in a situation in which he needed to use a gun? Proud of the fact that he lives in a situation in which guns are not objects of protection but objects of offense? Seriously, why do pro-gun people think everyone has to have guns or know about them? To me, guns symbolize a might-makes-right mentality, violence, and bloodshed. I’m proud I’m not a gun owner the same way I’m proud I don’t own a bible ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/112 "2012-11-28T21:55:36Z")
Because it’s not like something that it took courage or great moral resolve to do. We don’t have a draft. Marksmanship isn’t a required subject in public schools. This is on a par with taking great pride in never having drunk Dr. Pepper or something else ridiculously trivial and completely voluntary. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/113 "2012-11-28T21:59:12Z")
Hey, we have free speech zones now, so how about gun free zones? This can be directly linked to gun violence statistics. If your community can get its violence down, it can have its handguns back. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/114 "2012-11-28T22:21:11Z")
My proposal that I don’t support at all: 1. Outlaw the manufacturing and import of all handguns. Handgun definition would need to be done by somebody who actually understands firearms (probably a combination of barrel length and overall size I would guess). 2. Outlaw the manufacturing and import of all standard handgun caliber ammunition. This will impact a lot of rifles that use the same ammo, but that is an unfortunate side effect. 3. Outlaw ownership within 1 year of of #1, with a legit buyout on all existing firearms. This will be costly, since you will get some beautiful weapons and some $50 pieces of junk. The one year window is to allow people to sell / ship out of country. 4. Mere possession becomes a huge fine (5x the buyout rate). Use is 10x the fine (hits people who hide one for self-defense). Use in crime is a 25 year sentence minimum. The buyout numbers would be critical. You need to make it worth it to me to hand over my collection (more than their current value). That will get the largest number out of circulation - cheaper to buy them all for obscene amounts than to hire the jack booted thugs to collect them. Combine that with a high cost of keeping them, plus a window for gun shops to purchase and ship out of country and you can reduce the number of available handguns in the US. Carrot and Stick. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/115 "2012-11-28T22:48:24Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Because it’s not like something that it took courage or great moral resolve to do. We don’t have a draft. Marksmanship isn’t a required subject in public schools. This is on a par with taking great pride in never having drunk Dr. Pepper or something else ridiculously trivial and completely voluntary. People are proud for much less courageous things than gun ownership. Most people are proud of their country, or their race, despite never having had a say in its membership. If you were born in the US, how can you be proud of the US since all that requires you to remain here is to do nothing? At least with guns, one can be proud that one has be able to make that choice to not use one and be touched by an instrument of violence. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/116 "2012-11-28T23:16:39Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Because it’s not like something that it took courage or great moral resolve to do. We don’t have a draft. Marksmanship isn’t a required subject in public schools. This is on a par with taking great pride in never having drunk Dr. Pepper or something else ridiculously trivial and completely voluntary. I’m mildly proud that I’ve never used meth. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/117 "2012-11-28T23:20:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m mildly proud that I’ve never used meth. Does that count? I’ll fistfight anybody who says you’re not a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/118 "2012-11-28T23:25:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > People are proud for much less courageous things than gun ownership. Most people are proud of their country, or their race, despite never having had a say in its membership. If you were born in the US, how can you be proud of the US since all that requires you to remain here is to do nothing? At least with guns, one can be proud that one has be able to make that choice to not use one and be touched by an instrument of violence. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/119 "2012-11-28T23:32:06Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > :rolleyes: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316/120 "2012-11-28T23:42:09Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Perhaps he’s proud that he’s never had to be placed in a situation in which he needed to use a gun? Proud of the fact that he lives in a situation in which guns are not objects of protection but objects of offense? Seriously, why do pro-gun people think everyone has to have guns or know about them? To me, guns symbolize a might-makes-right mentality, violence, and bloodshed. I’m proud I’m not a gun owner the same way I’m proud I don’t own a bible Most of those who want to continue the war on drugs are profoundly ignorant about marijuana. Most who are against gay marriage are simply ignorant about homosexuals. In general, most “prohibition” type laws in this nation are based upon ignorance, so I am not sure if this is something to brag about. Proud of not being a gun owner is one thing- proud of being so ignorant about them you can’t even make an informed argument is another. Ignorance is never anything to be proud of. And being a strident hater of something you are ignorant about is even worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handgun-ban-how-would-you-do-it/642316.md?page=7)