# Handguns now legal in DC **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312 "2007-03-09T20:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/1 "2007-03-09T20:49:56Z")
> **[Latest news from around the world | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world)** > > Latest World news news, comment and analysis from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice > [@](#): > > A federal appeals court overturned the District of Columbia’s long-standing handgun ban Friday, rejecting the city’s argument that the Second Amendment right to bear arms applied only to militias. > > \ > > The court also ruled the D.C. requirement that registered firearms be kept unloaded, disassembled and under trigger lock was unconstitutional. What I find most interesting is the dissenting voice, Judge Karen Henderson, > [@](#): > > writing that the Second Amendment does not apply to the District of Columbia because it is not a state. Whether the majority decision was right or wrong, this mindset would seem to negate the entire Bill of Rights, not to mention big hunks of the Constitution. I haven’t read the decision, so maybe she has a good argument, but it’d better be a DAMN good argument. I’m putting this thread here because I’m sure that 100% of all Dopers do not agree with the decision and it’ll eventually end up here or the Pit anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/2 "2007-03-09T20:54:40Z")
Obviously I love the result. Would like to read the opinion. Don’t have time to find it right now. Will check around later. Major win for gun owners 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/3 "2007-03-09T21:09:10Z")
I’m excited about this ruling, because it a) affirms an individual right, and b) the SCOTUS cannot duck the subject anymore. If they grant cert they have to set a precedent, which they undoubtedly would have liked to avoided doing, and if they don’t grant cert they set a precedent with the Circuit Court ruling. I’ll tell you one thing: Sarah Brady, Chuck Schumer, and Dianne Feinstein are positively apoplectic right now. I wish I could have seen the look on their faces when they heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/4 "2007-03-09T21:11:20Z")
Hee, hee! I’m loving this decision. Here’s [another version](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258067,00.html) of the story. It’s about time the citizens of DC got their rights restored. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/5 "2007-03-09T21:14:37Z")
I’m doing the happy dance at my desk right now. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/6 "2007-03-09T21:17:10Z")
As a former DC resident who actually owned a gun there (a legally registered shotgun), let me say that I’m glad this day finally came. It’s fairly obvious to anyone who lives in DC that there are plenty of guns there. The criminals paid absolutely no attention to the law. The only ones who bothered to do so were people like me, who went through the absolute hassle of taking the gun to the court house (you should have seen the looks I got!), being fingerprinted, paying the fee, etc. And, of course, if I had ever used it in self-defense, I’m sure I would have been prosecuted. The law was a ridiculous failure as well as being unconsitutional, and I’m just sorry I’m not there to take advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/7 "2007-03-09T21:23:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Alan Gottleib, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, called it a “huge victory for firearm civil rights.” \ > [@](#): > > Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, issued a statement calling the decision “judicial activism at its worst.” > **[CNSNews](https://newsbusters.org/cnsnews)** > > Welcome to NewsBusters, a project of the Media Research Center (MRC), America’s leading media watchdog in documenting, exposing and neutralizing liberal media bias. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/8 "2007-03-09T21:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I’m doing the happy dance at my desk right now. [/QUOTE] Careful. You keep a gun in that desk? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/9 "2007-03-09T21:26:17Z")
Now THAT is funny. Judicial activism? It is to laugh. Or is it only funny when the conservatives say it? Goose, gander and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/10 "2007-03-09T21:30:23Z")
Here’s the [full opinion.](http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf) (PDF, 75 pages) Regardless of your joy or sorrow over this, it bears careful reading. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/11 "2007-03-09T21:45:08Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Now THAT is funny. Judicial activism? It is to laugh. Or is it only funny when the conservatives say it? Goose, gander and all that. [/QUOTE] Seems to my untrained eye that they just sort of glossed over the whole “organized militia” part. I can see how it’s controversial, but those words are probably there for a reaon. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/12 "2007-03-09T21:50:18Z")
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds] Seems to my untrained eye that they just sort of glossed over the whole “organized militia” part. I can see how it’s controversial, but those words are probably there for a reaon. [/QUOTE] Untrained, indeed. The word “organized” appears nowhere in the 2nd Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/13 "2007-03-09T21:52:31Z")
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds] Seems to my untrained eye that they just sort of glossed over the whole “organized militia” part. I can see how it’s controversial, but those words are probably there for a reaon. [/QUOTE] Read the opinion, in which both sides talk about that. **Is DC a state or not?** The dissent, at the end, is fascinating reading. The dissenter claims that the District of Columbia is not a state, so it is immune to constitutional wording that defines rights of states. Did the framers consider DC a state for practical purposes? They didn’t leave us much to go on. I imagine they just overlooked this little detail, since if DCers aren’t citizens of any state, how can they be citizens of the United States? Maybe this will force the country to look again at past proposals to make DC a true 51st state. It would certainly clear up a lot of ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/14 "2007-03-09T21:54:58Z")
The streets will run with the blood of the damned! Rue the day we allow guns in the hands of people who don’t vote, for on that day The _Sparrow_ will balk, The _Seed_ shall **not** grow, The _Mayor_ will find a loophole, and The _Grass_ shall be as The _Sky_. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/15 "2007-03-09T22:08:01Z")
So… then Judge Henderson believes that DC residents are not necessarily guaranteed the right to free speech, a jury, etc.? What does this mean for San Francisco and NYC? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/16 "2007-03-09T22:09:04Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Untrained, indeed. The word “organized” appears nowhere in the 2nd Amendment. [/QUOTE] Err, regulated. I was close. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/17 "2007-03-09T22:11:12Z")
Anyone got a few hundred bucks I can borrow? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/18 "2007-03-09T22:12:45Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] So… then Judge Henderson believes that DC residents are not necessarily guaranteed the right to free speech, a jury, etc.? What does this mean for San Francisco and NYC? [/QUOTE] Right now, nothing. The DC Circuit’s opinion is binding only in its area. Since the likely result is that the losing side here will appeal, since if they don’t, they have to dump thier gun ban, and since there is a conflict in the circuits, the SCOTUS will likely grant cert, and THEIR decision will be binding on San Francisco and NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/19 "2007-03-09T22:12:47Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Anyone got a few hundred bucks I can borrow? [/QUOTE] What do you want? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312/20 "2007-03-09T22:16:57Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] So… then Judge Henderson believes that DC residents are not necessarily guaranteed the right to free speech, a jury, etc.? What does this mean for San Francisco and NYC? [/QUOTE] ``` * First Amendment *Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.* No "state". * Sixth Amendment *In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense. * Includes the word "district" ``` Oddly, only the 2nd specifies “State” "_A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed"_ and thus the dissent _may_ have a point. :dubious: SF’s law was tossed out already. _Clearly_ illegal under the CA Const. and case law. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handguns-now-legal-in-dc/395312.md?page=2)