OK, let’s say they do that. Are YOU going to stand out in the parking lot and make sure that no one else parks right up next to the wheelchair user’s van in the regular-sized space, so that he/she can’t use the ramp or lift to get back in?
I dare you to try, just TRY, to see the issue from another person’s point of view.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Tranquilis *
**
Although there’s an obvious joke, I’ll leave it alone.
For the record Mississauga, ON and Brighton, ON both have by laws which stat that new businesses must have facilities which cater to parents with children. It also states that businesses which do major renovations to the parking have to enact this by law as well. Straight from City Hall on that, ladies and gents.
Tranquilis, if you say you frequent one grocery store over another based soley on parking, I have to either call you a liar or a light masocist, and very odd in either case. Not many people would make that decision based entirely on a factor that is negative for them, no matter how warm, fuzzy, and humanitarian it makes them feel inside. Why on Earth would you choose there to shop JUST b/c they make parking more inconvenient (marginal though it is) for you? Did you honestly scout out all the stores and think “That one has the least amount to offer me for parking, but aren’t they nice?”. Personally, I look for price and product selection, but kudos to you if you’re that PC whipped. Tell me, do you buy shoes which are a size too small for you in the hopes of not stepping on people’s toes?
Not everybody who uses handicapped spots uses a chair. I, for one, have difficulty with walking long distances, such as from the back of a parking lot. If I did use a chair, I might park at the back of the lot. Fewer people would ding my car, too.
My dear Zoff…
You are assuming I live in a town large enough to have two shopping centers.
And my analogy was never meant to describe market forces, that was your own twisted conclusion. It was descriptive of the previous statement “the rallying cry of the majority”, and in that scenario meaning “we are bigger than you so we will do whatever we want”. Living with a religious majority of which I am not a part, I get a lot of this.
So it was redundant, it *is[\i] the pit afterall.
My dear Zoff…
You are assuming I live in a town large enough to have two shopping centers.
And my analogy was never meant to describe market forces, that was your own twisted conclusion. It was descriptive of the previous statement “the rallying cry of the majority”, and in that scenario meaning “we are bigger than you so we will do whatever we want”. Living with a religious majority of which I am not a part, I get a lot of this.
So it was redundant, it is the pit afterall.
Boy, it’s hard to be condescending when you double post…
:o
Boy, I’m not. I’ve been laughing throughout the thread. I cannot believe what people get indignant about in a pit thread.
Please, carry on!
I was only kidding when I said you must find Teletubbies entertaining. I am now seriously reconsidering the kidding part.
OMG! Can you imagine that?!?!? Indignation in a Pit thread!!! The nerve of some people!!!
My dear DaveX,
I assumed nothing. The lesson stands. If, for example, the store priced Diet Pepsi at $1,000,000 a bottle, you’d go elsewhere. Even out of town. So you don’t like the terms of the shopping – go somewhere else. You might not like having to go elsewhere, but the keys to your happiness are in your own hands. Use them wisely.
Wait, are you saying the shopping centers are doing this because they’re bigger than you or that the posters are saying this because they’re in the majority? Either way, the analogy still falls flat.
People on the board aren’t saying “if you don’t like it leave” because they are in the majority, they’re saying it because of the previously explained right of the shopping center to reserve parking. If I was the only poster defending reserved parking I’d still make the point. How is this similar to saying “my dad can beat up your dad”?
If you’re saying the shopping center is providing the spaces just to lord power over you, I refer you to my previous post.
It’s also unwise to condescend when your analogy doesn’t make sense.
Let me spell this out real simple for you.
In this case families with children are a majority.
When a majority gets what they want, many times they defend it simply by saying “we are bigger than you, so tough”.
A bully on the playground will get what he wants because he (or the threat of his father, in this scenario) is bigger than you.
I was simply taking a many-to-many example down to a one-on-one level.
And I wouldn’t be insulting anyone elses analogies if I were you, million-dollar-pepsi boy.
Need it simpler?
(1) Businesses own their property.
(2) Businesses have the right to post special parking signs.
(3) Businesses have the right to enforce these special parking signs.
(4) You whine that you don’t think it is fair.
(5) We say “boo hoo, that’s life”.
(6) You park in a specially posted parking area out of protest.
(7) You get ticketed/towed/booted.
(8) We point at you and say “Ha ha, what a dumbass”.
Oh, come on, be a sport… 
Seriously, when I hand out a straight line like that, I deserve what I get.
Well, I can say that I’m startled, but fine, this will do. You realize, of course, that you have far more recourse against laws than you do against private decisions? Mind you, I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find enough people to sign a petittion/attend a town hall meeteing, etc., to make a difference on this topic.
Watch it. Calling me “maso” means nothing to me, one way or another, but liar will get your virtual butt kicked up around your ears.
How is it a negative factor? The store does things I find appropriate and courteous, while the other two don’t (they don’t do anythng negative, just nothing positive). It’s an easy choice. How am I inconvenienced? Because I have to walk an extra 20 yards? In my world, that’s so minor as to be laughable, if not totally unnoticable, while the slots there for people who have a need for them are very noticeable. Of course, I also think it’s my job to help little old ladies load their groceries, hold doors for others, and generally be courteous. You thinking I’m some kinda Boy Scout? Well, guess what? I was. It’s how I was raised, and I’m thinking it’s a pretty good way to be.
Price, selection? Eh, what’s to choose from? All three stores are about the same. One has a sightly better bakery, another has a better produce section, and the third has a better deli, but the differences are negligable. If one had a serious advantage over the others, that would likely change my mind, but since that’s not the case, I can let my chivalrous impulses decide.
“PC-whipped”? Hardy-har-har! You’ve not been checking my posts, now have you? Heh!
And, no, I buy my shoes big and roomy. But I will go out of my way to not step on people, unless they need a good stomping, in which case I’m happy to oblige. Now show me your toes…
Is this stupid thread STILL GOING ON?
“Time to go home people, nothing to see here!!!”
Rick, talk about a breath of fresh air. Won’t take long for someone to flame you for saying THAT! :rolleyes:
Well, it now appears you’re bad at analogies and simplifying issues.
First of all, you were talking about stork parking which is for pregnant women, not families with kids. That must be a hell of a town where pregnant women are a majority. But if you want to change horses in mid-stream to help your argument, I’m game.
Whether or not families with children are a majority is irrelevant. Businesses provide services they think give them an edge even if the group they are serving isn’t in a majority. Examples: vegetarian meals, parking for pregnant women, electric carts for the elderly or infirm. This is not an example of the majority running roughshod over your rights because they can. It’s a business making a decision to cater to a certain group to increase business.
And it wasn’t the majority of the citizenry that set the stork parking rule, it’s the shopping center. So the families with kids don’t even have standing to “defend” the policy by saying they’re bigger. So, once again the analogy of the bully on the playground getting what he wants because “his dad can beat up your dad” is just plain bad.
Analogy appropriateness factor: 0.0.
Normally I don’t do this, but if you insist on trying to condescend I have to point out that the million dollar pepsi was not an analogy, it was an example.
I’m not threatening you if you park in the stork spot and I’m not condemning you to hell. I’m simply explaining that if you don’t like the terms of the bargain, don’t make the exchange.
Now when did I say I’d park in a spot where I’d get booted… that would be stupid. AFAIK, around here it isn’t even a ticketable offense.
You’re list is close though, Diane.
See, that’s even more simple.
Uhhh nooooo. . . . we are talking about handicapped, stork, and parent w/children parking. Remember?
#6 and 8 stay as is.
remain?
stay as they are?
stay as is remain are they?
It just looks so wrong. 
Sharron is ranting on Handicap spaces, not me.
I only have a problem with kids, remember? 
You think YOU have problem with kids? Let me send over my friend’s son, THEN you’ll have kid problems!
As someone who has a handicapped parking placard, let me explain why it can be necessary:
Walking or taking a wheelchair over a parking lot can be dangerous because many parking lots are uneven and can cause the handicapped person to fall or their wheelchair to tip over.
As many people who are not handicapped are also not very understanding, it can be dangerous if one walks slowly from the back of a parking lot.
Opal, do you wish this ongoing joke had never started?
Not everyone who is handicapped is in a wheelchair. Further, some of us who are handicapped have a major limp and get tired VERY easily. Reducing the amount we have to walk is very important, especially when many stores do not have any place to sit and rest.
Most of us do not want special treatment. We just want to go about our lives and do everything everyone else does. The problem is, we often can’t. So, there are laws that protect us in hiring and we have special parking spaces.
For the wheelchair bound, the spaces NEED to be bigger so that they can get the wheelchair out and get into it.
This doesn’t even address the fact that for handicapped spots it is either feast or famine. The least amount of handicapped spaces can be found at the hospital my doctors are at. The most? Why that is in a downtown office lot that I rarely see used. I often have to fight to find a space at most businesses around here, and about 15% of the time, the space is filled with an able bodied person like yourself who thinks that they are being treated unfairly by having to walk a few extra feet.