# Handicapping the 2012 GOP presidential nomination **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160 "2011-02-12T21:14:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/581 "2011-06-29T11:42:55Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Gee, Obama is supposed to an flippin’ genius, and ummm, how’s that working out for you? Pretty good, actually. His long-overdue reform of the student loan system has made a huge difference in my ability to manage my loan payments during this rather tough period. > [@](#): > > I making $5,000 a year less than I did in 2008. And I guess I should be happy, I have a job. And I’m sure you can show a direct link to something Obama did to cause this. > [@](#): > > Fact is, Obama comes off as elitist and kind of out of touch, really. By “elitist” do you mean “talks smarter than me”? Are GOP tax cuts for the rich a better sign of solidarity with the common man? ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/582 "2011-06-29T11:45:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think you’re the one making the mistake there. But be that as it may. > No one in their right mind would have rather had a beer with Carter than with Ford. And we elected Nixon twice, and nobody in their right mind would have wanted to have a beer with Nixon, period.. Again, I think this was a different time… But really, Nixon was better than Humphrey, who couldn’t decide if he was against or for a war his president started, or McGovern, who ran on the “craven surrender” platform. > [@](#): > > I’d much rather have a beer with Obama, because he’s smart and knows a lot about a wide variety of different things; I’m sure he’d be fun to talk to. . Or he’d come off as a snooty college professor who never held a real job. Too bad one of those things he doesn’t know is “how to fix the economy”. > [@](#): > > The things Bachmann knows that just ain’t so, along with her general illogic, would start driving me up the wall about five minutes into our conversation. Every politician- including Obama, says things that aren’t true because they fit into their idealogical framework. I’m still waiting to hear about those other 7 states that got added to the union that he visted. I suspect two of them are “confusion” and “denial”. > [@](#): > > If I were single, I wouldn’t mind having sex with Bachmann, because IME crazy women can be awfully good in the sack. You know, I’m going to call shennanigans here. Whether it be Hillary, Palin or Bachmann, what is it about female candidates where they are subjected immediately to sexist comments like this. This is the kind of thing that could really backfire on you guys. A lot of women aren’t going to like seeing one of their own mistreated. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/583 "2011-06-29T11:50:00Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Gee, Obama is supposed to an flippin’ genius, and ummm, how’s that working out for you? Pretty good, actually. His long-overdue reform of the student loan system has made a huge difference in my ability to manage my loan payments during this rather tough period. > [@](#): > > I making $5,000 a year less than I did in 2008. And I guess I should be happy, I have a job. And I’m sure you can show a direct link to something Obama did to cause this. > [@](#): > > Fact is, Obama comes off as elitist and kind of out of touch, really. By “elitist” do you mean “talks smarter than me”? Are GOP tax cuts for the rich a better sign of solidarity with the common man? ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/584 "2011-06-29T11:54:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Pretty good, actually. His long-overdue reform of the student loan system has made a huge difference in my ability to manage my loan payments during this rather tough period.? Ah, silly me, I joined the MILITARY to pay for my college. I should have just sucked away at the welfare teet… > [@](#): > > And I’m sure you can show a direct link to something Obama did to cause this. He’s supposed to be the guy who was gonna fix this, remember? Ain’t seein’ a whole lot of fix at this point. “Recovery Summer II” is really the most disappointing sequel of the year. > [@](#): > > By “elitist” do you mean “talks smarter than me”? No, I mean talking down to people like his “bitter Clinger” comments. There’s a valid argument to be made that the GOP uses social issues to get working people to vote against their economic interests, but he put it in a way that sounded snooty. My own opinion is that the social issues are a waste, because you can’t legislate morality. But to dismiss people’s concerns like that is elitist and arrogant. > [@](#): > > Are GOP tax cuts for the rich a better sign of solidarity with the common man? NO, they aren’t. In fact, they are bad policy. The GOP has gotten it all backwards, really, because tax cuts make government more attractive, not less. (You get all these goodies, and you don’t have to pay for it.) I suspect, though, the reason why they don’t resonate is because most people hope to be rich some day, and shudder at the thought that when they finally climb their way to the top, someone in the government is just going to take it and give it to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/585 "2011-06-29T12:10:38Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Ah, silly me, I joined the MILITARY to pay for my college. I should have just sucked away at the welfare teet… No, you joined the military so that the government would pay for your college. You do understand that student loans have to be paid back right? If that’s welfare then everyone who ever bought a house or car on a loan got welfare. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/586 "2011-06-29T12:18:52Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > No, you joined the military so that the government would pay for your college. You do understand that student loans have to be paid back right? If that’s welfare then everyone who ever bought a house or car on a loan got welfare. No, I joined the military because I love my country. And frankly, given how many people default on their student loans, or never pay them back…it’s welfare, really. If the government has to back your loan, it’s because a real institution wouldn’t bet on your normal ability to pay it back. Which in turn drives up the cost of college, because they can charge ridiculous amounts for it. When I went to UIC back in the 80’s, tuition was only about $1200 a year. Today it’s about $9000 a year. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/587 "2011-06-29T14:51:17Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Again, I think this was a different time… But really, Nixon was better than Humphrey, who couldn’t decide if he was against or for a war his president started, or McGovern, who ran on the “craven surrender” platform. I’m not gonna argue who was better by whatever yardstick. The fact is that nobody with a pulse would have wanted to have a beer with Nixon. > [@](#): > > Too bad one of those things he doesn’t know is “how to fix the economy”. Maybe you’re unfamiliar with our system of government, and the limits to what a President can do without the concurrence of Congress. I recommend the Constitution, Articles I and II. > [@](#): > > Every politician- including Obama, says things that aren’t true because they fit into their idealogical framework. Oh, good: so there’s no difference IYHO from someone who tells the truth 99% of the time, and gets it wrong 1% of the time, from someone who does the reverse. If Obama ever has said something that was incorrect, it’s ‘both sides do it.’ I think the discussion here has moved past that sorta crap. > [@](#): > > I’m still waiting to hear about those other 7 states that got added to the union that he visted. I suspect two of them are “confusion” and “denial”. I’ve got no idea what you’re talking about, but whatever, dude. If you’re gonna nail Obama for tailoring the truth to his preferences, you gotta come up with something better than garbage like this. > [@](#): > > This is the kind of thing that could really backfire on you guys. Because what’s said on the SDMB is SO influential in the wider world. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/588 "2011-06-29T15:35:41Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Gee, Obama is supposed to an flippin’ genius, and ummm, how’s that working out for you? Better than if Hanoi John and Caribou Barbie has gotten into the White House, thanks for asking. > [@](#): > > I making $5,000 a year less than I did in 2008. And I guess I should be happy, I have a job. Really?? I’m making more than I did in 2008. Maybe the problem here is _you._ > [@](#): > > Fact is, Obama comes off as elitist and kind of out of touch, really. **Elitist: Code word for “He’s smarter than I am, more successful, and I blame him for my perceived inadequacies.”** > [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > He’s supposed to be the guy who was gonna fix this, remember? Ain’t seein’ a whole lot of fix at this point. Ain’t seein’ a whole of ideas about how the President, all by himself, would “fix this.” I don’t really see a whole lot of ideas coming from the GOP and the rabid right-wing blogosphere. Just a lot of Tourette-Syndrome-like spoutings of “Tax cuts! Tax cuts! Tax cuts!” Never mind the fact that the large corporations, posting **record** profits and paying their CEOs at higher rates than ever before, are nevertheless sitting on their piles of cash and not hiring more workers, forcing their current workforce slave away at 175% of their capability under the threat of No Longer Being Lucky To Have A Job. Never mind that, it’s all Obama’s fault. Go ahead and tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. > [@](#): > > No, I mean talking down to people like his “bitter Clinger” comments. There’s a valid argument to be made that the GOP uses social issues to get working people to vote against their economic interests, but he put it in a way that sounded snooty. > > My own opinion is that the social issues are a waste, because you can’t legislate morality. But to dismiss people’s concerns like that is elitist and arrogant. Yes, because telling anybody that they are being immature and just pain stupid is wrong. Why wear seatbelts? You’re just going to make people feel they’re bad drivers, and they’ll think you are “snooty.” :rolleyes: God forbid anybody tells the truth in this country… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/589 "2011-06-29T16:28:15Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > End of the day, 2012 will be a referndum on Obama, not Bachmann. Absolutely. But if Bachmann is the Republican nominee, voters will hold their noses and vote for the no-longer-inspiring-but-safe guy over the loose cannon. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/590 "2011-06-29T19:35:06Z")
Recovering Republican makes a good point. Obama IS an elitist and personally I’m sick of it! Why on earth would we want the elite in a job like the presidency? Same deal with the olympic team. Why don’t normal Americans who need to lose a few pounds get the chance at the 200 meters? People could relate to them. And don’t even get me started on America’s university professors! No wonder they all accept evolution and global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/591 "2011-06-30T00:49:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m not gonna argue who was better by whatever yardstick. The fact is that nobody with a pulse would have wanted to have a beer with Nixon. . My late father thought Nixon was a great man and stuck up for him even after he resigned. . > [@](#): > > Maybe you’re unfamiliar with our system of government, and the limits to what a President can do without the concurrence of Congress. > > I recommend the Constitution, Articles I and II.. I recommend getting a president who isn’t a whiny boob who compares the budget process to his kid’s homework. Funny, all those OTHER presidents had no problem turning around bad economies, and they got rewarded with re-election. Even the very evil George W. Bush. > [@](#): > > Oh, good: so there’s no difference IYHO from someone who tells the truth 99% of the time, and gets it wrong 1% of the time, from someone who does the reverse. If Obama ever has said something that was incorrect, it’s ‘both sides do it.’ > . You know what, I’m not one of these people who spends morning, noon and night hating Obama. But at least be a LITTLE bit objective. By any standard of first term presidents, he has more in common at this point with Bush-41 and Carter than Clinton or Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/592 "2011-06-30T00:58:13Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Funny, all those OTHER presidents had no problem turning around bad economies, and they got rewarded with re-election. Even the very evil George W. Bush. George W. Bush turned around an economy, alright, but not in the sense you’re implying. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/593 "2011-06-30T01:06:34Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Better than if Hanoi John and Caribou Barbie has gotten into the White House, thanks for asking.. Okay, if you want to resort to name calling, it just shows your argument is kind of weak, don’t it? > [@](#): > > Really?? I’m making more than I did in 2008. Maybe the problem here is _you._ . When I used to argue with the Wingnuts on Townhall, they usually resorted to personal attacks. Nice to see the Moonbats aren’t much better. It’s refreshing to my notion of balance in the universe. Seriously, guy, I was back to better than I was within a year of setback in the 92 and 01 recessions… And those were more serious setbacks for me personally, really. Longer periods of unemployment and shopping a weaker resume. So I have to conclude, if things aren’t getting better quickly, it probably has to do with the guy in the White House. Now, if I got the “Tar and Feathers” concession, I might see some real wealth. > [@](#): > > **Elitist: Code word for “He’s smarter than I am, more successful, and I blame him for my perceived inadequacies.”**. No, I blame him for his incompetence, stupidity and bad leadership. Truly wise people respect the opinions of others. Obama is kind of arrogant, and probably not well liked by his own party. You don’t think there are more than a few Democrats who will happily throw him under the bus next year? . > [@](#): > > Ain’t seein’ a whole of ideas about how the President, all by himself, would “fix this.” I don’t really see a whole lot of ideas coming from the GOP and the rabid right-wing blogosphere. Just a lot of Tourette-Syndrome-like spoutings of “Tax cuts! Tax cuts! Tax cuts!” Never mind the fact that the large corporations, posting **record** profits and paying their CEOs at higher rates than ever before, are nevertheless sitting on their piles of cash and not hiring more workers, forcing their current workforce slave away at 175% of their capability under the threat of No Longer Being Lucky To Have A Job. Never mind that, it’s all Obama’s fault. Go ahead and tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.. Keep playing that class warfare card.. I agree, tax cuts aren’t doing the job, because capital isn’t the problem. Employment is the problem, and so many places are finding ways to do more with less. But stimulus (remember “Unemployment won’t go above 8%”?) hasn’t worked, either, other than to reward his union buddies. but you see, what has Obama really done to encourage those CEO’s to hire? > [@](#): > > Yes, because telling anybody that they are being immature and just pain stupid is wrong.. So beliveing in God and thinking you have a right to defend your family is 'immature" and “wrong”. (incidently, I’m an atheist and I don’t own a gun or have handled one since I left the army, but I am interested in how you defend the “Bitter Clingers” comment.) . > [@](#): > > Why wear seatbelts? You’re just going to make people feel they’re bad drivers, and they’ll think you are “snooty.” :rolleyes: God forbid anybody tells the truth in this country… I usually wear a seat belt, but I don’t want the government telling me I HAVE to wear one. I certainly don’t want them using the one time I forgot to put it on as an excuse to pull me over and extort me for $55.00. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/594 "2011-06-30T01:13:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Absolutely. But if Bachmann is the Republican nominee, voters will hold their noses and vote for the no-longer-inspiring-but-safe guy over the loose cannon. Now you see, Buddy, this is where I have to go into “Old Guy” mode. I remember in 1980, we heard Democrats saying the same thing about Ronald Reagan, and how the **PILE OF FAIL™** that was Jimmy Carter would get re-elected because no one would elect someone as 'scary" as Reagan. Why Reagan was going to \*\*BLOW UP THE WORLD!!! \*\* And under Carter, unemployment was only at 7.4%. Oh, wait. Reagan won 45 states. And in 1984, he won 49 states. Would have won 50 if he spent in Minnesota. 9.1% unemployment is NOT safe. I don’t feel safe, and I have a job. Here’s the thing. I was really willing to give Obama a chance. I even agree with him on Health Care reform. But he simply hasn’t performed. I’m hoping we can get someone moderate on the GOP side. Not Romney, because I don’t like the US of A becoming a subsidary of the LDS. But what I’m seeing on the Wingnut side is that they know they probably can nominate the Cheney/C’Thulhu ticket and beat this guy. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/595 "2011-06-30T02:21:34Z")
Please don’t wear your seat belt on my account. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/596 "2011-06-30T03:17:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree, tax cuts aren’t doing the job, because capital isn’t the problem. Employment is the problem, and so many places are finding ways to do more with less. But stimulus (remember “Unemployment won’t go above 8%”?) hasn’t worked, either, other than to reward his union buddies. That’s not two separate statements, as you imply with the “either”. The reason the stimulus didn’t work was because so much of it was in the form of wait for it tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/597 "2011-06-30T05:37:46Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Okay, if you want to resort to name calling, it just shows your argument is kind of weak, don’t it? And **you** would know, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/598 "2011-06-30T10:20:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s not two separate statements, as you imply with the “either”. The reason the stimulus didn’t work was because so much of it was in the form of > > wait for it > > tax cuts. The real reason Stimulus didn’t work was because it was a horrible idea. But if your guy is going to run on the excuse platform, good luck with that. Now, I’ll be fair here, I thought some of what he did helped. He continued TARP, which saved the banking industry. He saved the Auto Industry. Things would have been a lot worse without the bailout. But largely, the guy has done more whining about the Republicans, Wall Street and even his own party than he’s provided real leadership. And Like I said, I’m old enough to remember Jimmy Carter. Jimmy is taking on a whole new luster compared to this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/599 "2011-06-30T10:21:53Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Please don’t wear your seat belt on my account. Another notion that went right over your head, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160/600 "2011-06-30T13:48:31Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > I remember in 1980, we heard Democrats saying the same thing about Ronald Reagan, and how the **PILE OF FAIL™** that was Jimmy Carter would get re-elected because no one would elect someone as 'scary" as Reagan. Why Reagan was going to \*\*BLOW UP THE WORLD!!! \*\* Who thought Reagan was scary, and why? I wasn’t around, but it’s always been my understanding that he was pretty moderate as governor of California. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-2012-gop-presidential-nomination/571160.md?page=31)