# Handicapping the Pennsylvania primary, 4/22/08 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056 "2008-03-28T15:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/261 "2008-04-22T16:15:29Z")
Why in the hell can’t we get something as simple as choosing between two candidates right??? > [@](#): > > [Politics - The Philadelphia Inquirer](http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/politics/More_voting_machine_malfunctions.html) > > "I just came from voting. Finally got my vote in at 49 ward, 07 division…after waiting for (the only) 2 voting machines to be repaired. > > "I was able to cast my vote for Obama after waiting 1 and 1/2 hours. During that time at least 100 voters left without voting…possibly not to return. > > “I immediately called every News channel I could get through to. Persons who answered at the stations informed me that my ward was not the only one with broken machines and '**Paper ballots (as an alternative) without Obama’s name on it. These provisional ballots did have Hiliary’s name on them.**” If this is true, this is insane. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/262 "2008-04-22T16:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Why in the hell can’t we get something as simple as choosing between two candidates right??? If this is true, this is insane. [/QUOTE] Boy that sure sounds familiar after the last 8 years… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/263 "2008-04-22T16:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I think they will have to call the brut squad in when they announce Barack Obama as the nominee - because she will insist that the tally is wrong and that she actually won. Not enough rolleyes in the world unfortunately for her antics this campaign season. I expected her to get down and dirty [/QUOTE] I’m not picking on you, **Phlosphr** , really I’m not…but what in hell is this? Will the “brut squad” have to spray Hillary because she’s gotten so down and dirty? WTF? Is this the latest stink you dredged up? Just about anything is believable, apparently. This morning I casually commented to Mrs. J. that it had been revealed that Michelle Obama posed nude for the _Daily Worker_ centerfold. Her response was: _"She **did**???_" I think my next rumor will be that Pee-Wee Herman has endorsed Obama. Or that Hillary has called for a pre-emptive bombing strike against China if they don’t leave the Tibetans alone. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/264 "2008-04-22T16:35:33Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Why in the hell can’t we get something as simple as choosing between two candidates right??? If this is true, this is insane. [/QUOTE] How could they not have Obama’s name on the paper ballots? \*\*Jackmannii \*\* - I was joking around. Sorry, bad morning for an innocent jest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/265 "2008-04-22T17:27:38Z")
[QUOTE=NaturalBlondChap] Does the same machine politics rule other states, have the players paid in past primaries/caucuses, does the republican system follow similar methods in the same states? Oh and finally , will this bullshit (the payments or lack thereof) affect the result tomrrow? [/QUOTE] Forget it, Jake. It’s Philadelphia. (With apologies to Roman Polanski.) Seriously, Philly is one of the last holdouts of old-style machine politics, and it is not very pretty down at the retail level. The tradition of WAM (walking around money) is still very much alive here, and given that there is effectively no Republican party in the city it’s pretty much a Democrat thing. It’s primarily a way to make sure that the ward leaders can keep the loyalty of their constituents by spreading a little green around, and to make sure they support the “right” candidate. This used to be much more common, mostly in the large northeastern cities and Chicago, but my impression is that Philly is the only place where the machine is still significant. Pennsylvania as a whole has a well-deserved reputation for sleazy politics, and the columnist Steve Lopez (now with the LA Times) used to use the phrase “Pennsylvania, Land of Giants” to poke fun at the corrupt political culture here. [Here](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20080417_Daniel_Rubin__A_little_lesson_in_WAM_101.html) is the original column in the Inquirer to which the Guardian story refers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/266 "2008-04-22T17:44:47Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] In many ways this election is about a movement and not about a man, the movement is more important than the man. [/QUOTE] [That is at least arguable.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/obama_ism_without_obama_6944) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/267 "2008-04-22T17:49:30Z")
Anybody hearing anything about turnout yet? There is a blog at [http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/politics/](http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/politics/) that suggests turnout in Philadelphia has been just average at some polling places. But other than that, I’m not seeing much. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/268 "2008-04-22T18:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [That is at least arguable.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/obama_ism_without_obama_6944) [/QUOTE] See also [here.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2007/center_grounds_shift_left_6397) (Not really about the Obama campaign, but relevant.) ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/269 "2008-04-22T18:03:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [That is at least arguable.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/obama_ism_without_obama_6944) [/QUOTE] Perhaps that was part of the NPR piece I listened to yesterday… ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/270 "2008-04-22T18:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Why in the hell can’t we get something as simple as choosing between two candidates right??? If this is true, this is insane. [/QUOTE] Looks like this may be confusing the provisional ballots with the ward leaders’ sample ballots, which rarely include candidates that the ward leader does not support. They look a bit like ballots, I guess, but you sure could not vote with one. If they are really provisional ballots with no Obama on them then it’s time to warm up the outrage machine. But otherwise it’s just Philly as usual and voters know the game. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/271 "2008-04-22T18:42:01Z")
Not making any claim to the accuracy or reliability of this polling data, just bringing what’s being reported. . . > [@](#): > > (CBS) Most students attending four-year colleges and universities in Pennsylvania are enthusiastic about voting in the presidential campaign, according to a poll conducted by CBS News and UWIRE, and Barack Obama is the overwhelming favorite among those who intend to vote in the Democratic primary. > > Among Pennsylvania students who will vote or have voted in a Democratic primary in any state, Obama leads Hillary Rodham Clinton 71 percent to 28 percent, and among those who intend to vote in the Pennsylvania primary, Obama leads by a nearly identical margin of 71 percent to 29 percent. Support for Obama is consistent across types and sizes of schools. > > . . . > > [CBS Poll: Obama Dominant At Pa. Colleges - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/17/opinion/polls/main4024891.shtml) This certainly bodes well for him if these numbers actually hold up in the voting booths today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056.md?page=13)