# Handicapping the Pennsylvania primary, 4/22/08 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056 "2008-03-28T15:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/101 "2008-04-11T16:07:14Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I don’t know if I’d go so far as extortion. It sounds more like old-time political boss corruption to me. But the entitled, whiny attitude is ugly. [/QUOTE] But not surprising. It’s Philadelphia, after all. Philly was inventing new modes of political corruption before Chicago was a trading post on Lake Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/102 "2008-04-11T16:08:40Z")
I wouldn’t sweat it. I don’t think Obama supporters will need ward leaders to prod them to the polls. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/103 "2008-04-11T16:16:24Z")
I read this this morning and I wouldn’t sweat it. Look change doesn’t come easy, but one thing we know Obama is good at is bringing it on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/104 "2008-04-11T16:17:09Z")
It should also be noted that besides the problem Obama has with how “street money” looks as far as corruption goes, oftentimes most of the money given to the ward leaders somehow finds its way into that ward leader’s pocket instead of being distributed to canvassers and street workers. Obama is rightly concerned with minimizing opportunities for the dirtier cogs in the Philadelphia Democratic machine to skim off the top. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/105 "2008-04-11T16:20:06Z")
And I need to add that, while I don’t like to stereotype fellow Democrats, you do not achieve a position like ward leader or ward heeler in Philadelphia without playing the game. The honest party members don’t get that high, because they won’t have the sponsorship or the support from the machine. I despise machine politics…it’s the exact opposite of grassroot. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/106 "2008-04-14T18:14:22Z")
Yeah, it’s kind of a silly endorsement, but I like it none-the-less. . . [Steelers Owner Dan Rooney Endorses Obama](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBpTD) > [@](#): > > Pittsburgh Steelers owner and chairman Dan Rooney today endorsed Senator Barack Obama’s Presidential candidacy citing Obama’s ability to put an end to business as usual in Washington and finally bring about the change that Pennsylvanians desperately need. Rooney, who had initially intended to remain neutral in the race, met with Senator Obama today following Obama’s remarks to the Alliance for American Manufacturing at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center, where he offered his endorsement. Rooney also released the following open letter… > > > [@Dan Rooney](#): > > > > ``` > > Dear Fellow Pennsylvanian, > > > > Based on the experiences that I have had in my seventy-five years and my assessment of what I think our nation needs to make real the change that is so needed, I am proud and now feel compelled to endorse Senator Barack Obama. > > > > This is not something that I do regularly but as I listen to the candidates in this race, I am struck that we continue to hear about the problems and the same challenges that we have been talking about for decades. Protecting jobs here in Pennsylvania, breaking our dangerous and costly addiction to foreign oil, making health care accessible and affordable – these are neither new issues nor new ideas. And yet we have failed to make real progress. > > > > As a grandfather and a citizen of this community I think Barack Obama’s, thoughtful, strategic approach is important for America. When I hear how excited young people seem to be when they talk about this man, I believe he will do what is best for them which is to inspire them to be great Americans. > > > > This time, we can’t afford to wait. Our country needs a new direction and a new kind of leadership – the kind of leadership, judgment and experience that Senator Obama has demonstrated in more than 20 years of public service, and in a particularly impressive way in this campaign. Senator Obama has rejected the say-and-do anything tactics that puts winning elections ahead of governing the country. And he has rejected the back-room politics in favor of opening government up to the people. Barack Obama is the one candidate in this race who can finally put an end to business as usual in Washington and bring about real change for Pittsburgh and the country as a whole. He has inspired me and so many other people around our country with new ideas and fresh perspectives. > > > > True sports fans know that you support your team even when they are the underdogs. Barack Obama is the underdog here but it is with great pride that I join his team. > > > > When I think of Barack Obama’s America I have great hope. I support his candidacy and look forward to his Presidency > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Daniel M. Rooney, Owner and Chairman, Pittsburgh Steelers > > > > ``` 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/107 "2008-04-14T18:15:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Yeah, it’s kind of a silly endorsement, but I like it none-the-less. . . [Steelers Owner Dan Rooney Endorses Obama](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBpTD)😃 [/QUOTE] Football! Pffft! I’ll take Obama seriously when he gets endorsed by a **bowling league!** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/108 "2008-04-14T18:17:47Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] And I need to add that, while I don’t like to stereotype fellow Democrats, you do not achieve a position like ward leader or ward heeler in Philadelphia without playing the game. [/QUOTE] I did not know any local political parties in America still **had** such things as “ward heelers.” [This article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine) speaks of urban machine politics as pretty much a thing of the past. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/109 "2008-04-14T18:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Yeah, it’s kind of a silly endorsement, but I like it none-the-less. . . [Steelers Owner Dan Rooney Endorses Obama](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBpTD)😃 [/QUOTE] It’s not really as silly as it looks to yinz on the outside. The Rooneys are VERY influential in western Pennsylvania. If it were Dan’s father Art who endorsed Obama, you might have about 30 people in Allegheny County voting for Clinton on the 22nd. Dan doesn’t have quite that much pull, but the family is still a Big Name in Steeler country an’ 'at. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/110 "2008-04-14T18:22:29Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I did not know any local political parties in America still **had** such things as “ward heelers.” [This article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine) speaks of urban machine politics as pretty much a thing of the past. [/QUOTE] Most people outside of Philadelphia and Chicago and NYC and Boston don’t realize that. It’s still alive and still dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/111 "2008-04-14T18:33:44Z")
Rooney’s endorsement is huge in my opinion. They’ve had something perceived as much more substantial to offer people than any politician and for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/112 "2008-04-14T18:45:17Z")
[QUOTE=Burton] Rooney’s endorsement is huge in my opinion. They’ve had something perceived as much more substantial to offer people than any politician and for a very long time. [/QUOTE] Exactly. People who don’t know western Pennsylvania aren’t going to get this…Rooney’s endorsement probably counts for more in Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties than Bob Casey’s does. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/113 "2008-04-14T20:46:39Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Exactly. People who don’t know western Pennsylvania aren’t going to get this…Rooney’s endorsement probably counts for more in Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties than Bob Casey’s does. [/QUOTE] Wow, pretty cool, then! Ok, so I officially upgrade my enthusiasm from “silly” to WOO HOO!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/114 "2008-04-15T12:16:15Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Exactly. People who don’t know western Pennsylvania aren’t going to get this…Rooney’s endorsement probably counts for more in Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties than Bob Casey’s does. [/QUOTE] Living in Lions country it’s hard to fathom an NFL owner family being so revered. Are the Rooneys really that influential and have they ever made a difference in past elections? Also, is Teresa Heinz Kerry still held in high esteem and does her endorsement have much influence? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/115 "2008-04-15T12:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Living in Lions country it’s hard to fathom an NFL owner family being so revered. Are the Rooneys really that influential and have they ever made a difference in past elections? Also, is Teresa Heinz Kerry still held in high esteem and does her endorsement have much influence? [/QUOTE] The Rooneys are very influential and very progressive. I’m not sure they’ve ever endorsed a primary candidate before, though. I think Teresa is held in high esteem in Pittsburgh, anyway, because of her connection to the Heinz family. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/116 "2008-04-15T12:55:37Z")
Polls: [Quinnipiac](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1168), with a sample of 2100 PA Dem voters (MOE 2.1%), has Hillary up 50-44, same as the week before. The poll was in the field Wednesday through Sunday; the Q-poll folks say the weekend’s polling wasn’t noticeably worse than Wednesday through Friday. [SurveyUSA](http://www.nbc10.com/politics/15884424/detail.html) has Clinton up 54-40 (MOE 3.9%), not a statistically significant change from last week’s 56-38. The poll was in the field Saturday through Monday. Looks like ‘bittergate’ didn’t make a difference. File it under “things of greater interest to the chattering classes than to the voters.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/117 "2008-04-15T13:18:12Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Also, is Teresa Heinz Kerry still held in high esteem and does her endorsement have much influence? [/QUOTE] Who’s she endorsing? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/118 "2008-04-15T13:24:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Who’s she endorsing? [/QUOTE] Obama ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/119 "2008-04-15T18:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Polls: [Quinnipiac](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1168), with a sample of 2100 PA Dem voters (MOE 2.1%), has Hillary up 50-44, same as the week before. The poll was in the field Wednesday through Sunday; the Q-poll folks say the weekend’s polling wasn’t noticeably worse than Wednesday through Friday. [SurveyUSA](http://www.nbc10.com/politics/15884424/detail.html) has Clinton up 54-40 (MOE 3.9%), not a statistically significant change from last week’s 56-38. The poll was in the field Saturday through Monday. Looks like ‘bittergate’ didn’t make a difference. File it under “things of greater interest to the chattering classes than to the voters.” [/QUOTE] But it did, the polls were all moving in his favor before that, the news were dominated by the fake Bosnian snipers, Mark Penn, and how Hillary had no chance of winning and should quit. Now its just bitter, bitter, bitter, clinging to guns and religion, etc. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056/120 "2008-04-15T20:38:30Z")
Thing is, Hillary needed “bitter” to do more than halt his momentum; she needed it to knock him way down in the polls, both PA and nationally. Hasn’t happened, and I just saw a new poll today that has him up by 5 in Indiana. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handicapping-the-pennsylvania-primary-4-22-08/443056.md?page=7)