# Hands as Lethal Weapons
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 18, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900 "2002-10-18T21:39:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BZ00000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BZ00000)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/1 "2002-10-18T21:39:46Z")
Do people who know martial atrs really have to register their hands as lethal weapons? I don’t have to register a knife if I buy one and I am pretty sure that would be as deadly as someons’s hands.
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### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/2 "2002-10-18T21:47:00Z")
Urban Legend.
[http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal\_2007.html](http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Research has failed to reveal any statutory, regulatory or other requirement that boxers – or anyone skilled in martial arts – “register” their hands or any other body part as “lethal weapons” in the U.S., UKoGBaNI, Canada, or any other common law nation. However, a criminal defendant’s experience in boxing, karate, or other forms of hand-to-hand combat may be relevant to determining various legal issues.
[http://www.eemaworld.com/herrmanthesis.htm](http://www.eemaworld.com/herrmanthesis.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> There is a popular urban legend in the United States that black belts must register their hands as lethal weapons. Marc Denny, a former attorney and founding member of The Dog Brothers"!, explains the legends origin as, & my understanding is, in Japan they have a registry of people who are black belts, so that someone can’t say I’m a black belt when they’re not. (Denny, 9/01/00). While there is no such registry in the United States, your martial arts training will be a factor if you are prosecuted for injuring someone.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/3 "2002-10-19T02:32:18Z")
I’m ‘registered’ as a black belt with the Japan Karate Federation. But there is no ‘legal’ registration required.
However, there is a concept in law of using appropriate response to violence. For example, if you are a 300 lb linebacker and a 150 lb jockey pushes you, you could go to jail for punching him multiple times and hospitalizing him.
On the other hand, if you’re a 150lb jockey, and a 300 lb linebacker comes charging at you, you could probably pull out a gun and shoot him if you could show that the man intended to do grievous harm to you. In that case, t he response would be proportional to the threat.
Having a black belt in karate can be used against you in court in much the same manner. If you kill a guy by accident in a street fight, your black belt may be used by the prosecution to show that you used disproportionate force, and/or that you should have had the ability to defend yourself without using lethal force.
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/4 "2002-10-19T03:02:08Z")
Registration aside, what about being charged with Assault With A Deadly Weapon?
The recent [news story](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/brawl021018.html) about the brawl at the youth football game states two men were charged with that for _kicking somebody_.
Can this be applied to hands ever? With martial arts or boxing training?
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### Author:  [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/5 "2002-10-19T03:12:21Z")
What kind of shoes were these guys wearing? If they had some heavy industrial boots on, I could understand the “lethal weapon” thing, but not if they were wearing converse all stars.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/6 "2002-10-19T03:32:06Z")
I’m ‘registered’ as a black belt with the Japan Karate Federation. But there is no ‘legal’ registration required.
However, there is a concept in law of using appropriate response to violence. For example, if you are a 300 lb linebacker and a 150 lb jockey pushes you, you could go to jail for punching him multiple times and hospitalizing him.
On the other hand, if you’re a 150lb jockey, and a 300 lb linebacker comes charging at you, you could probably pull out a gun and shoot him if you could show that the man intended to do grievous harm to you. In that case, t he response would be proportional to the threat.
Having a black belt in karate can be used against you in court in much the same manner. If you kill a guy by accident in a street fight, your black belt may be used by the prosecution to show that you used disproportionate force, and/or that you should have had the ability to defend yourself without using lethal force.
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/7 "2002-10-19T04:46:54Z")
**Sam Stone**
No offense, but was your second post a product of the hamsters, or were you somehow aluding that it answered my question?
Anyway, upon further reflection, I guess overzealous prosecuters could charge anybody with anything if they so decided.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/8 "2002-10-19T05:33:42Z")
Pure hamsterism. I posted that exactly once.
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### Author:  [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/9 "2002-10-19T05:38:55Z")
Many years ago at a lawn party this stuck up woman was bragging how her son had just achieved getting his black belt and that she had to go to the local police station and register his hands as weapons.
**"That’s strange."** I said in a loud voice. **"I’m a patrolman here in town and there is no such law.**
“Uh, I was just, uh, kidding” she stammered, face turning red as my hair.
It’s true that at that time I was a full time cop. It’s also true that her son did indeed recieve a black belt. But if anyone ever says that their hands are registered weapons. Well, that’s bullshit.
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### Author:  [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/10 "2002-10-19T07:56:50Z")
I’ve seen a couple other threads on this topic before; they all say the same thing - no such law… pure BS.
There are plenty of _more_ lethal training systems than martial arts, though that is in it’s self a huge catagory with very different emphasis in different styles. Very few of these disciplines specifically train you how to kill someone, and those that do don’t advocate it.
People like soldiers _are_ specifically trained how to kill other humans, with and without weapons. On the whole your average soldier has killed a hell of a lot more people than any recreational sports enthusiast of any kind, yet no such “registration” laws exist for them.
The most dangerous people seldom have any training of any kind; they’re just really aggressive, mean SOB’s that don’t care about the law and have little to no self-control. The only time they get registered in any way is when they’re arrested.
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### Author:  [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/11 "2002-10-19T07:58:16Z")
\Taichi\ and \Aikido\ are awesome. You just bounce whatever force the other person tries to apply on you back.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/12 "2002-10-19T19:21:07Z")
No, it’s a myth.
I am also a registered black belt (USJF). I have never had to register my hands, feet, elbows, or anything else.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/13 "2002-10-19T19:46:03Z")
If you’re a registered black belt, and you want to fly somewhere, you should have to put your hands into your checked baggage, and not be allowed to carry them on.
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### Author:  [@Monkeypants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkeypants)
#### Post date: [October 19, 2002, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-as-lethal-weapons/132900/14 "2002-10-19T20:51:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \*
> \*\*
>
> On the other hand, if you’re a 150lb jockey, and a 300 lb linebacker comes charging at you, you could probably pull out a gun and shoot him if you could show that the man intended to do grievous harm to you. In that case, t he response would be proportional to the threat.
>
> \*\*
Pretty sure the jockey can’t do that, SS. I believe in most jurisdictions that it wouldn’t be reasonable for the jockey to assume he was in danger of death or serious bodily harm, even if we all know he could be.
The law takes a “tough noogies” approach with this phenomenon for fights between men, but where it really become BS is when male spousal abusers attack their miniscule wives, who know their attackers and may very well know that “this time is the time he’s going to kill me”, yet are not allowed to use deadly force without being faced with a deadly weapon.
Don’t quote me though – this area of the law is constantly developing. If a linebacker is charging you, tell him to wait a second while you call a criminal defense lawyer and get the real scoop. If there’s no phone around, just shoot. You’re going to die anyway, so at least take your chances with a jury rather than accept your fate.