# "Hands up, Don't shoot!" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048 "2014-12-01T16:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/101 "2014-12-04T02:57:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > That’s a rather broad statement. When you say “certain folk”, are you including red, yellow, brown, black, and white people in that group? I’m including you. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/102 "2014-12-04T03:10:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Boy? Responding officers didn’t know the age of the suspect until later. > > OK, how’s this? - The police officers were made aware that someone, age unknown, at that location was reported to have a gun and responding officers actually saw a person reaching into their waistband. > > You, of course, have the option of waiting until someone actually fires a bullet at you before you return fire. If their bullet disables or kills you, your option is cancelled. That is part of the job of being a cop. They are allowed to carry guns purely on the basis that we think they can be trusted to (and have been thoroughly trained to) use them _very_ carefully and responsibly, and yes, even risk their own lives to prevent civilians from getting shot. That is their job. If cops can’t be trusted to do that, they should not be allowed to carry guns. The point of having an armed police force is _not_ to keep the police alive. Any cop who shoots a civilian who was not actually (not just in the cop’s imagination) about to kill someone else, has fucked up very badly, and shown himself unfit for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/103 "2014-12-04T03:17:42Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > No, because I don’t look at every issue and event through a racist / racial filter. In other words, you deny that racism exists, at least within the mind of any police officer. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/104 "2014-12-04T13:46:33Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > In other words, you deny that racism exists, at least within the mind of any police officer. Got it. Not at all. It’s your logic that is faulty, along with all of the simpletons who are protesting. The fact that a black person was shot by a white cop doesn’t prove racism, nor does the opposite. Even a series of such events doesn’t prove racism. You have to look at each event, along with the participants. Brown made a series of very bad decisions that evening, starting with robbing a store and ending with charging toward a cop. I don’t see how race enters the picture, as I would have expected the same result regardless of the races of the cop and robber. The case of the huge black guy selling cigarettes who was choked to death by the police doesn’t suggest racism, either. It does suggest possible police brutality, lack of perspective and faulty tactics. But it makes the news if protestors play the race card, apparently the most common card in the deck. An event can be attributed to racism if it happens because of someone’s race and someone’s bigotry, such as here: [http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/12/01/Eyewitness-Before-St-Louis-Hammer-Attack-Black-People-Ran-Up-And-Down-The-Street-Yelling-Eff-the-white-people-kill-the-white-people](http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/12/01/Eyewitness-Before-St-Louis-Hammer-Attack-Black-People-Ran-Up-And-Down-The-Street-Yelling-Eff-the-white-people-kill-the-white-people) ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/105 "2014-12-04T13:52:19Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > That is part of the job of being a cop. They are allowed to carry guns purely on the basis that we think they can be trusted to (and have been thoroughly trained to) use them _very_ carefully and responsibly, and yes, even risk their own lives to prevent civilians from getting shot. That is their job. If cops can’t be trusted to do that, they should not be allowed to carry guns. The point of having an armed police force is _not_ to keep the police alive. Any cop who shoots a civilian who was not actually (not just in the cop’s imagination) about to kill someone else, has fucked up very badly, and shown himself unfit for the job. Excellent post. “Protect and serve” doesn’t mean overreact and jump to conclusions and resort to deadly force as your first option. The problem of police overreaction and escalation of force isn’t racism, it’s improper training and/or attraction of officers with the wrong attitude. I think it’s probably both. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/106 "2014-12-04T14:11:26Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > So it shouldn’t be surprising that citizens act irrationally when confronted by the police. Even if guns aren’t involved, the citizen may be panicked worrying about what he may of done. Yep. [Case in point.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTGTntifabI) It’s always easier to say these things in hindsight, or maybe, even think them in the moment. In the end, it still doesn’t justify killing people. These threads are rich with how some people can justify this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/107 "2014-12-04T15:46:42Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m including you. Awwwww. Group hug! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/108 "2016-04-25T19:14:36Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > Cleveland Agrees to $6 Million Settlement with Tamir Rice’s Family But Admits No Wrongdoing in 12-Year-Old’s Death > People Magazine > > The family of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old boy who was fatally shot by a Cleveland police officer in 2014, has agreed to settle a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city for $6 million, PEOPLE confirms. [http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,21002350,00.html](http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,21002350,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048/109 "2016-04-26T06:30:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s very possible his hands were up, he was shot in the body, and then he lowered his hands and received the wounds in his hands/arms from subsequent shots. I don’t believe that is possible. The time period during which the shots were fired is so short that it seems physically impossible for him to have pulled his hands down from a raised position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hands-up-dont-shoot/706048.md?page=5)