and (c) not be black.
Lie detectors are a con. They are somewhat effective as a tool of intimidation, but actually paying attention to the results is worse than useless.
(post shortened)
The person who originally called the police didn’t tell the dispatcher that he was reporting a 12yr old for pointing a gun at people.
The dispatcher didn’t tell the responding officers that the “person with a gun” was 12yrs old because he/she had no way of knowing that.
The officers at the scene did not know that the only person at the playground was 12yrs old.
The police officers did know that someone at that location was reported to have a gun and they actually saw a person reaching into their waistband.
Assuming all this (the last one is a bit of a stretch) you still don’t kill the boy.
I am amazed that a 12 year old with a not real gun is shot to death and there are people who don’t think that we have a problem with our policing. There is no way that race wasn’t a factor in the cops’ reactions and in their defenders.
Boy? Responding officers didn’t know the age of the suspect until later.
OK, how’s this? - The police officers were made aware that someone, age unknown, at that location was reported to have a gun and responding officers actually saw a person reaching into their waistband.
You, of course, have the option of waiting until someone actually fires a bullet at you before you return fire. If their bullet disables or kills you, your option is cancelled.
I’m from London and I did have a strange interaction once - in Central Park. I don’t know what he thought I was doing but it was very confrontational by UK standards. The cop was trying to order me to do something when all he needed to do was ask a question.
And then, if you don’t do as you’re ‘ordered’ it escalates. I had no idea what was going on.
I didn’t do what he wanted so he got into this macho posture that involved displaying his gun holster. Kind of like a peacock or something.
We have a police service, and they generally do serve the public. That felt very different.
That “not real gun” looks a lot like a Tanfoglio Witness 1911 CO2 BB Pistol. Which is a real gun.
vs
(The bottom links pic title reads, “The Replica gun that was being held by Tamir Rice when he was shot (Picture: Cleveland Police)”. That’s not an evidence bag and I wonder why the box shows multiple bullet holes? Did metro.co.uk post the wrong picture? )
Of course not, since they killed the kid on sight.
Then his age, or lack there of, had nothing to do with the decision to shoot.
I guess there’s no chance the kid was play acting stuff from Hollywood movies - copying all those much celebrated action heroes?
So if he was a white 18 year old with a concealed carry permit he would have been shot too? When has this ever happened? Or is it just black folks who might have a concealed carry permit that are allowed to be shot on sight? The kid wasn’t allowed to even try to prove his innocence. He was gunned down instantly before he even had a chance to do anything. Oh except drop his hands near his waist as he fell to the ground dead.
too bad they didn’t stop to determine the difference. Just admit you defenders see black people as inherently scary and we can stop having these threads.
No one said it was easy to be a police officer. Holding your fire until you understand the situation sometimes tough. It’s not too much to expect, however. Yes, if police shot everyone when they first arrived, they would be less at risk. It’s not what we want them to do. Take a few extra seconds, even at some risk to your own safety, to make pretty darn sure you’re killing someone unnecessarily.
Sounds like an infringement of intellectual property rights, a crime punishable by death. Or soon shall be.
Right
Right. The American version is: “DROP IT! DROP IT NOW!!” But this works if you did not come right up to the guy’s face so you lost the margin to take cover if necessary.
However, the way you just put it it sounds like the observer already *knows *it is a toy. Don’t forget this is the USA, where it is not uncommon for ordinary citizens to be armed for real.
Only, again, you actually know it’s a “kid” with a nonlethal weapon, or, if you are pretty confident that your position/distance/circumstance makes it extremely unlikely his first shot will be effective.
But if I pointed what looks like a gun at a policeman (which let’s remember this youth did not get as far as doing) at close range, I would have by that act just broke off talks and initiated action.
There is the duty of the LEO to if possible avoid placing themselves in a position of unnecessary jeopardy, where immediate deadly action is the only response available. It is bad tactics to do so, and to adopt a shoot-first-ask-later standard. But even so, there is no moral obligation to passively allow the other side the first shot, either.
Problem is, a lot of the US population has in the back of their minds that the LEO is to be feared for how he can hurt you, rather than respected, and the sentiment seems mutual.
I’m not sure if the OP is begging the question or insulting the police.
Question-begging: Of course Mike Brown got himself killed, because it must be the dead guy’s fault, because a police officer always has a reason to fire or doesn’t fire. The witnesses who say otherwise must be wrong.
Alternatively: In any case, any sane civilian must treat police officers as rabid bears with the decision-making capacity of sea urchins. Their training doesn’t allow them not to shoot you if you a) walk toward them b) run away from them c) supply them with the ID they just asked for d) scare their rabid-bear-sea-urchin protobrains.
And here I thought Darren Wilson was a screw-up. But apparently he was following procedure to the letter! Wow! e_e
Exactly right. There is no video of the Brown shooting, so we don’t know exactly what happened. Though the “hands up” bullshit came from one very non-credible witness, it has gained traction amongst those who see a racial angle to everything.
Anyhoo… the problem isn’t cops shooting shooting black people because cops are racist. The problem is cops shooting people (of any race) prematurely because too many cops are a) scared, b) trained to shoot instantly (shoot/no-shoot training drills), c) view all non-cops as threats (us vs. them mentality), and d) constantly repeat the “I’m going home safely to my family” mantra amongst themselves.
The “militarization” of US police forces, for lack of a better term, is largely to blame. No-knock, or one-knock, forced entry into homes, wearing black military-style uniforms, carrying .223 military-style rifles, wearing masks (for christsake!) and every rinky-dink town having SWAT teams has escalated the problem.
The Brown issue is politics/media sensation at its worst. There are actual videos, however, of cops shooting a guy in a Walmart and the kid, both carrying pellet guns. In both instances, the cops shot within a second or two, and before they could ascertain any threat. In neither case did the “perp” raise the pellet gun in a threatening manner. They were shot before they could comply with (yelled, threatening, surprising) instructions to drop the would-be weapon.
There are confirmed cases of cops breaking into people’s homes - mistaken locations or bad information - and killing the occupants because they thought they were drug dealers. Since when does drug dealing merit a SWAT forced entry? Even if someone wants to make that argument, don’t the cops have the burden of proof to ascertain they have the right address and crime-breaking occupants? Isn’t there a better way to arrest someone than storm into their house? It’s insane.
OK. Enough already. But the cops-shooting-people problem is far more complicated than race and phony “hands up” nonsense.
Not speaking to the “race” issue in your statement, but I don’t think an individual with a concealed carry permit would wave the gun around and point it at things the way this kid did.
I thought that was kinda the whole point of a concealed carry permit - to carry a weapon without others knowing.
The kid didn’t wave anything when the cops were there, and it’s strange that this seems irrelevant to you.
Supposedly the dispatcher told them a black male roughly 20 years old was seen walking around the area, waving a gun around.
When the cops came on the scene, the only person there was a black child sitting calmly in a gazebo NOT waving a gun around.
So here’s the question: why did they assume this kid was the subject of the 911 call? He could’ve been anyone, right? If no attempt was made to verify the kid was this suspect, the cops were clearly in the wrong for concluding he was. Whether he waved his toy around minutes before doesn’t matter, because 1) waving a toy around is not a crime and 2) the cops didn’t see him waving his toy around.
Swap Rice out with any black male and the outcome would’ve likely been identical. That is why this is scary.