# handsomeharry has been banned **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 27, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236 "2016-04-27T02:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/182 "2016-04-28T17:01:57Z")
No, choosing not to engage meaningfully with people who only want to establish their outrage cred and hurl insults (granted he gave as good as he got) does not mean troll. It means not feeling like giving out more ammunition to a vastly larger force. There are certain topics on this board that one cannot broach without being dove on by internet-defenders-of-the-right. It becomes an immediate pecking party comprised of people waving the flag of “Righteousness” in order to veil the fact that they are little more than bullies. **Czarcasm** Are you suggesting I suffer from a mental illness? If so I find that both insulting and offensive. 'Sides just because you are paranoid does not make you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/183 "2016-04-28T17:05:24Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > **Czarcasm** Are you suggesting I suffer from a mental illness? If so I find that both insulting and offensive. > > 'Sides just because you are paranoid does not make you wrong. I am saying that _I_ am not paranoid…and that _you_ are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/184 "2016-04-28T17:14:48Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > As has been pointed out upteen times “extremely morally repulsive” =/= “unpopular,” and it’s disingenuous to continue arguing as if it were. In case you overlooked it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/185 "2016-04-28T17:25:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But that’s precisely what trolling is: insincere postings made just to provoke a reaction. Any and every determination of trolling is ultimately based on subjective judgments about sincerity. To demand objective proof before moderating someone for trolling would effectively mean that we don’t moderate trolling at all. Problem is that any subjective decision is going to, by definition, hinge on personal opinions and biases. I, for one, didn’t get the sense that he was trolling. But that is neither here nor there. I got the sense that he was wrong - certainly. But his purpose was to tee-off on a couple of posters, the thread got derailed by the rush righteousness and he responded in kind (misguided though it be.) The Pit is not the place for rational discourse. That is what the rest of the board is for. Personally, I think there were multiple trolls in that thread and he wasn’t the worst - just the least popular. Zeke ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/186 "2016-04-28T17:26:51Z")
> [@](#): > > As has been pointed out upteen times “extremely morally repulsive” =/= “unpopular,” and it’s disingenuous to continue arguing as if it were. No, I didn’t overlook it. It is a meaningless distinction. Some political declarations are met with an insta-ban. Not with more speech, as **Miller** claimed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/187 "2016-04-28T17:28:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I didn’t overlook it. It is a meaningless distinction. Some political declarations are met with an insta-ban. Not with more speech, as **Miller** claimed. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t see how this contradicts anything **Miller** said in its entire context. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/188 "2016-04-28T17:29:46Z")
Perhaps it is time to have an official list. We pretty much already do since any poster who threatens a moderator or the ownership with a lawsuit is going to be gone right then and there. Put the OP in question in any other board and we have an instant banning, that’s pretty clear cut. Not even a hint of trolling is allowed, discourse is to be polite, or take it to **The Pit**. Now trolling isn’t allowed in **The Pit** either, however the line isn’t as clear. What’s the difference between name-calling and trolling? … but some subjects and name-calling make particularly poor combination … it’s just never going to work out … So ban certain subjects in **The Pit** , if a poster wants to discuss Holocaust Denial, they’ll have to be _polite_ about it and post elsewhere (may God have mercy on their soul). The intent would be to solve part of the problem with **HH’s** banning, and give the moderators a clear concise answer to the concerns raised in this thread, and in any future thread should this come up. Either that or state **HH** has a well documented history of limit-testing, such that he knew he was _way_ over the line … Death by Moderator … ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/189 "2016-04-28T17:32:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am saying that _I_ am not paranoid…and that _you_ are wrong. a) If you believe that everyone has cause to believe that constant surveillance is a danger then you are paranoid b) I believe constant surveillance is a danger to everyone c) Therefore I am paranoid. Had you meant that I was wrong you could simply have said so rather than implying that the entirety of a group I belong to is paranoid. By saying people who feel as I do are paranoid you say that I am paranoid. I don’t see why you felt the need to bring mental illness into it in the first place and I object to the label being applied to me - directly or by weaselly implication. It is easy. I do not believe that you suffer from delusions of security - but I do think you are wrong. See, easy. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/190 "2016-04-28T17:35:29Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Perhaps it is time to have an official list. We pretty much already do since any poster who threatens a moderator or the ownership with a lawsuit is going to be gone right then and there. > > Put the OP in question in any other board and we have an instant banning, that’s pretty clear cut. Not even a hint of trolling is allowed, discourse is to be polite, or take it to **The Pit**. Now trolling isn’t allowed in **The Pit** either, however the line isn’t as clear. What’s the difference between name-calling and trolling? > > … but some subjects and name-calling make particularly poor combination … it’s just never going to work out … > > So ban certain subjects in **The Pit** , if a poster wants to discuss Holocaust Denial, they’ll have to be _polite_ about it and post elsewhere (may God have mercy on their soul). The intent would be to solve part of the problem with **HH’s** banning, and give the moderators a clear concise answer to the concerns raised in this thread, and in any future thread should this come up… This seems a reasonable - albeit imperfect - solution to an unreasonable problem. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/191 "2016-04-28T17:36:47Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > … > > Had you meant that I was wrong you could simply have said so rather than implying that the entirety of a group I belong to is paranoid. > > By saying people who feel as I do are paranoid you say that I am paranoid. > > I don’t see why you felt the need to bring mental illness into it in the first place and I object to the label being applied to me - directly or by weaselly implication. > > … Makes me wonder why you posted… > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > … > > 'Sides just because you are paranoid does not make you wrong. You’re going overboard here. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/192 "2016-04-28T17:40:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Makes me wonder why you posted… > **Zeke** -'Sides just because you are paranoid does not make you wrong. Simple, to discount anything someone says because of a mental illness is discriminatory and dehumanizing. One can be paranoid and still have legitimate reasons to fear. If you choose to infer from that anything other than what I explicitly said is your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/193 "2016-04-28T17:43:05Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Simple, to discount anything someone says because of a mental illness is discriminatory and dehumanizing. One can be paranoid and still have legitimate reasons to fear. > > If you choose to infer from that anything other than what I explicitly said is your choice. No. I was just trying to help you see what others are seeing here. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/194 "2016-04-28T17:52:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, it happens all the time. For some announced positions, as in the case of **handsomeharry** , it is trolling and gets an insta-ban. That was the ruling. > > That’s why this statement is false - > > **handsomeharry** was banned because his response of insults to insults in the Pit is trolling when it is done by someone with an unpopular view. > > **hndsomeharry** did what everyone else does in the Pit - responded to insults with insults. Because he had an unpopular view, this is trolling. He was banned for doing what everyone else does in the Pit, because of his unpopular view. > > We don’t ban people for having unpopular views as long as they do what everyone else does. We just ban them for doing what everyone else does if they have unpopular views. > > **Czarcasm** and **Superdude** respond to me with insults, and not even in the Pit. But they don’t have unpopular views, so they don’t even get a Warning. **handsomeharry** responds to insults with insults, and in the venue where it is appropriate to trade insults. He also doesn’t get a Warning - he gets banned. > > But we don’t treat the expression of unpopular views differently. > > Sure we don’t. > > Regards, > Shodan That pesky liberal hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/195 "2016-04-28T17:52:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But that’s precisely what trolling is: insincere postings made just to provoke a reaction. Any and every determination of trolling is ultimately based on subjective judgments about sincerity. To demand objective proof before moderating someone for trolling would effectively mean that we don’t moderate trolling at all. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Problem is that any subjective decision is going to, by definition, hinge on personal opinions and biases. I, for one, didn’t get the sense that he was trolling. But that is neither here nor there. How would you propose we remove the subjectivity? Keep in mind that **Miller** didn’t ban this guy. It was the consensus of the mods. I’m not certain, but I suspect we don’t require unanimity among the mods to ban someone. So, some mods might have agreed with you. But it’s more or less like the SCOTUS in deciding what “reasonable” person would do. The mods are selected based, in part, on their ability to minimize the effect of their own personal bias, and then decisions are made by the group, as a whole. I’m not seeing how can you do much better than that. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/196 "2016-04-28T17:54:36Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > …I think the insta-ban was ham-fisted and primarily partisan. Damn those cursed Allies! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/197 "2016-04-28T17:55:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > If it is, officially, then it’s a ‘rule’ that’s broken constantly and is more winked at than any other. People troll each other all the time in the Pit. Hell, that’s exactly what pitting someone IS…you are calling them out and trolling them to come into the thread to be abused. Exactly. The anti trolling rule in the pit is seemingly specifically designed to be used on one like handsomeharry. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/198 "2016-04-28T17:56:11Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Perhaps it is time to have an official list. We already have that list, but the mods are trying to talk away that we do. It is not against the rules to insult people in the Pit (unless you say you are a Nazi). It is not against the rules to refuse to engage in the Pit (unless you say that you are a Nazi). The best response to repulsive speech is more speech (unless you say you are a Nazi). It is not against the rules to Pit inactive posters (unless you say you are a Nazi). You don’t get insta-banned on a first offense (unless you say you are a Nazi). It isn’t against the rules to tell other posters they are too stupid to be worth engaging (unless you say you are a Nazi). But it’s not official. Sure, that’s how it happened. But it’s not official. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/199 "2016-04-28T18:01:46Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > 1. When did the Pit turn into great debates? If someone chooses to vent why should they have to provide justifications when jumped on by people of other persuasions. > > 2. Why would you enter into conversation with people who are leering at the gleaming tines of their pitchforks in slavering anticipation of loosing them? > > 3. Trolling is now defined as choosing not to waste a bunch of time talking to people who won’t hear until a subjective decision is reached regarding the sincerity of your beliefs. > > 4. Saying, “I doubt certain aspects of the accepted narrative” opens you up to vitriol and venom. People claim they are willing to engage in frank and fair discussion but come out knives flashing. > > 5. It is perfectly reasonable to not respond to everyone. In face, if you have a life it is impossible to reply to everyone. I make a post and then leave for an hour. I come back and there are 20 replies. I reply to all twenty and in the meantime there are 15 more. Not all voices warrant a reply. > > 6. Perhaps the Pit should be renamed Great Debates XXTreme if the rule is civility and required cites plus profanity. > > I think the insta-ban was ham-fisted and primarily partisan. > > Zeke (not a Nazi) Perhaps the test would be to scour The Pit for anything that could be construed as trolling and see if the mods act consistently with regards to perceived trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/200 "2016-04-28T18:51:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Perhaps the test would be to scour The Pit for anything that could be construed as trolling and see if the mods act consistently with regards to perceived trolls. Make the Moderators jump through hoops just to prove a point? I think I know who would flunk _that_ test. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/201 "2016-04-28T18:58:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Exactly. The anti trolling rule in the pit is seemingly specifically designed to be used on one like handsomeharry. I think you guys are over-interpreting what “trolling” is. Just calling someone out and insulting them isn’t trolling. If I scream at you in the pit that you’re a blithering idiot, and really think you are one, then I’m not trolling even though you might have a very negative reaction to my comments. But if I do so just to get a rise out of you, or others, and keep doing so more or less pointlessly, then that’s probably trolling. As noted, it’s a subjective judgement on a third party’s part to determine the difference, but there is a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=11)