# handsomeharry has been banned **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 27, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236 "2016-04-27T02:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/21 "2016-04-27T12:48:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW in the Pit, he refused to defend his political position, and instead insulted people. And this is a banning offense, with no warnings or mod notes. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, it’s different for Nazis. I’m okay with the rules being different for Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/22 "2016-04-27T12:53:43Z")
Then in honesty the rules should be updated to make it clear that the rules are different for some political positions, and to clarify which positions they are. And as mentioned, the answer to this - > [@](#): > > was handsomeharry banned just for being a self-admitted Nazi? is Yes, and **Miller** ’s statement to the contrary is untrue. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/23 "2016-04-27T12:55:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then in honesty the rules should be updated to make it clear that the rules are different for some political positions, and to clarify which positions they are. > > And as mentioned, the answer to this - > is Yes, and **Miller** ’s statement to the contrary is untrue. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t think so – I think he was banned for being a self-admitted Nazi and refusing to answer questions about his beliefs, as **Miller** states. That seems, justifiably to me, to be classified as trolling. If he had answered the questions, then he wouldn’t have been banned. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/24 "2016-04-27T13:02:50Z")
It’s the “self-admitted” part that is key. Was he a Nazi? Who knows? We certainly don’t, since he never explained it. It’s not being a Nazi that was the issue; it’s the way he made the claim - and his reaction to requests for elaboration - that made him a troll. Saying “I’m a Nazi” is a provocative statement. Saying “I’m a serial cat strangler” is a provocative statement. Saying “I’m a pedophile” is a provocative statement. And while I’m not aware of any self-admitted serial cat stranglers, we have had the odd pedophile who lasted far longer than expected because they were willing to discuss their views to all and sundry. None of them said “I like to bugger little boys” and then responded to all queries with abuse and derision. That’s the difference between someone merely holding a repugnant personal viewpoint and someone trolling the board. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/25 "2016-04-27T13:21:24Z")
IOW what I said is exactly correct. For some political positions, you must respond to abuse in the Pit by discussing your positions. Insulting back when you are insulted, in the Pit, is trolling. No mod notes, no warnings - you get banned, because it’s trolling to respond to insults with insults. In the Pit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/26 "2016-04-27T13:39:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW what I said is exactly correct. For some political positions, you must respond to abuse in the Pit by discussing your positions. Insulting back when you are insulted, in the Pit, is trolling. No mod notes, no warnings - you get banned, because it’s trolling to respond to insults with insults. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan It wasn’t the insults – it was the non-answering questions. If he had answered the questions in addition to throwing back the insults, then he wouldn’t have been banned. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/27 "2016-04-27T13:40:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW what I said is exactly correct. For some political positions, you must respond to abuse in the Pit by discussing your positions. Insulting back when you are insulted, in the Pit, is trolling. No mod notes, no warnings - you get banned, because it’s trolling to respond to insults with insults. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan Is that a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/28 "2016-04-27T13:42:11Z")
I have to agree with Shodan. This is an obvious content based banning. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/29 "2016-04-27T13:49:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > …that’s not a position that anyone on the moderation staff is particularly happy to see on the board. This concerns me a little. Any other positions the moderation staff are particularly unhappy to see on the board? It would be helpful to know what they were. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/30 "2016-04-27T13:53:10Z")
Okay, so not only is “free speech” (in the pit for Gawd’s sake) not quite free around here, you are require to incriminate yourself too. What baloney. When they came for the Nazi in the Pit I said nothing…blah blah blah… ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/31 "2016-04-27T13:53:17Z")
The guy implied to a poster that said poster’s relatives that were killed in the Holocaust were more responsible for their own deaths than the nazis were. That’s not a political belief. That’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/32 "2016-04-27T14:00:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Saying “I’m a Nazi” and then refusing to answer questions about it seems pretty damn different than, say, saying “I’m a Republican” and then refusing to answer questions about it. > > Seems entirely appropriate to me, and I salute the mods. Well done once again. Does that salute involve any gestures like extending the arm forward and upward, palm down? A picture might be helpful here… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/33 "2016-04-27T14:04:01Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This concerns me a little. Any other positions the moderation staff are particularly unhappy to see on the board? It would be helpful to know what they were. Really? I’d be unhappy to see (for example) someone say that it’s okay to commit rape… and I expect the moderators would be too. Wouldn’t you? It seems entirely reasonable for the moderators (or anyone) to be unhappy at seeing abominable positions supported, whether on this board or anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/34 "2016-04-27T14:22:01Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This concerns me a little. Any other positions the moderation staff are particularly unhappy to see on the board? It would be helpful to know what they were. Well paedophilia for one. This: > [@Gyrate](#): > > …we have had the odd pedophile who lasted far longer than expected because they were willing to discuss their views to all and sundry. None of them said “I like to bugger little boys” and then responded to all queries with abuse and derision. … is dead wrong unless I am completely failing to recall correctly. We did have a paedophile who was willing to calmly discuss the matter. He was run out on a rail. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/35 "2016-04-27T14:22:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Really? I’d be unhappy to see (for example) someone say that it’s okay to commit rape… and I expect the moderators would be too. Wouldn’t you? IOW this statement - > [@](#): > > The SDMB has always operated under the principle that repulsive speech is best met with more speech, not with suppression. is also not true. Again - in the Pit, if you express some political position, you must respond to insults by explaining your position. If you refuse, you get banned. In the Pit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/36 "2016-04-27T14:25:48Z")
I’m not in favor of banning in general as a moderating tool, and I think this particular banning was a mistake. My general dislike for banning people is related to the nature of this board and the need for higher traffic levels to its intellectual and social health. In the ten years or so that I have been posting here, I have seen the bannings of posters who accounted for hundreds of thousands of posts on this board, and I have seen the number of posts and threads here decline steadily as well. Obviously, there are lots of new posters in that time, and there have been prolific posters who died or moved on to other things (come back, Marley), so I’m not claiming bannings account for all of the decline. There have been prolific posters whose banning I silently applauded at the time, but in retrospect I feel differently. Threads like the one that **Miller** cited in his OP aren’t a valid reason for banning someone, IMO. I started reading it when it was new and after a while found it uninteresting. It appears to me that most of the people who stayed involved and attempted to engage \*\*handsomeharry \*\*are long-time, savvy posters who had a pretty good idea of what they were involved in. They chose to stay involved, and for some, posting in and reading a thread like that is entertaining. I really think that banning regular, long-time posters should be so rare as to be a big shock when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/37 "2016-04-27T14:26:11Z")
I don’t really have a problem with the jerk rule applied to Nazis who choose to make their only argument in the Pit through insults and whatever trolling is. But let’s not pretend that it’s not content based. Someone arguing that a recent deceased artist is over-rated wouldn’t be banned for the same type of posting. This banning was for the odious statements of the recently banned Doper on the particular subject, not for violation of rules applied blindly without regard to the subject. The mods and admins of this board must now make it clear that this is now how the rules will be applied. They also should re-instate the alleged Nazi scumbag with a warning if fair unbiased application of the rules means anything. I’m not sure it does mean anything here, but then let’s not pretend that it does either. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/38 "2016-04-27T14:31:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW this statement - > is also not true. Why would being unhappy with something preclude more speech? I’m unhappy with plenty of things that I respond to with speech! The moderators’ unhappiness with a Nazi position were not the reason for the ban. > [@](#): > > Again - in the Pit, if you express some political position, you must respond to insults by explaining your position. If you refuse, you get banned. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan If it’s a Nazi position, yes. Presumably there are some others – I would guess pro-pedophilia, pro-rape, pro-terrorism, and a few others. Maybe these should be better laid out, but it seems entirely reasonable and appropriate to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/39 "2016-04-27T14:31:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again - in the Pit, if you express some political position, you must respond to insults by explaining your position. If you refuse, you get banned. In the Pit. He started a thread in the pit, in part, to espouse his views. He could have started the SDMB equivalent of an Ask-Me-Anything thread elsewhere and then he could have discussed his views without being banned or insulted for them. Or, since he was unwilling to discuss or even define his views, he was free not to bring them up. Remember that he reanimated a [five-year-old thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=590245) just to pit it. It seemed to be blatant attention-seeking (and the unwillingness to discuss his “unusual” views seemed to be blatant trolling). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/40 "2016-04-27T14:33:36Z")
I am not surprised. I pointed out in the pit that his actions were clearly trolling by board standards. And, since some people disagree, I thought I’d explain my reasoning. It appears to me to align with that of the mods, but they can obviously correct me if I’m wrong. My claim had absolutely nothing to do with his beliefs nor with the fact he was insulting people. We’ve had racists on the board many times, and a Nazi is just a special form of racist. And of course he can insult whomever he wants. As Miller explained, he was baiting people. He was laughing at the accusations. He was clearly getting off on people being upset. That is disingenuous. That is insincere. And that is the line that delineates between what is allowed and not allowed in the Pit. Having a legitimate grievance is fine. Stirring up crap to watch people get angry is not. The delineation I was told about the last time someone got banned in for trolling in the pit was this: Outside the pit, only the part about deliberately stirring stuff up matters. Inside the Pit, they must also be insincere. Otherwise, one could argue that any poster being pitted was actually trolling. I have seen too many people with absolutely abhorrent views being left alone. So I do not believe any accusation that this is about their views is valid. And anything about it being about insulting people is obviously false, as that always happens. And it’s not as if a modern Nazi is any worse than a race realist. So that’s my take on why Miller is right, and why this is not banning people for wrong views or insults. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=3)