# handsomeharry has been banned **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 27, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236 "2016-04-27T02:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/41 "2016-04-27T14:40:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW this statement - > is also not true. > > Again - in the Pit, if you express some political position, you must respond to insults by explaining your position. If you refuse, you get banned. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan “IOW”. You’ve said that a lot in this thread. Got any response to “TOW”(The Original Words)? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/42 "2016-04-27T14:46:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why would being unhappy with something preclude more speech? Because they banned him with no warning or mod notes. > [@](#): > > The moderators’ unhappiness with a Nazi position were not the reason for the ban. Yes, it was. As you mentioned, the rules are different for this poster exactly because of his position. > [@](#): > > If it’s a Nazi position, yes. Presumably there are some others – I would guess pro-pedophilia, pro-rape, pro-terrorism, and a few others. Then again, what **Miller** claimed about silencing is untrue. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > “IOW”. You’ve said that a lot in this thread. Got any response to “TOW”(The Original Words)? I have quoted the original words, and pointed out the contradictions. Do you have any substantive response, or should you be banned for refusing to explain yourself? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/43 "2016-04-27T14:50:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because they banned him with no warning or mod notes. > Yes, it was. As you mentioned, the rules are different for this poster exactly because of his position. Because he stated his position as a Nazi but refused to answer questions about it. Both together, not one or the other. So yes, the rules are different for self-admitting Nazis, but admitting one is a Nazi is not a bannable offense by itself. > [@](#): > > Then again, what **Miller** claimed about silencing is untrue. Not sure which claim you’re referring too. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/44 "2016-04-27T14:54:07Z")
I wasn’t going to involve myself in this discussion but a number of recent comments seem to me to be disturbingly misguided. So let me first of all say, with respect to the OP, job well done, and as others have said, the transparency is appreciated. Which makes it ironic that a number of posters seem to think that the banning was content-based, and it’s doubly ironic because this is probably the most tolerant board I’ve ever participated in with respect to permissiveness of diverse and sometimes bizarre views. When someone like **Shodan** [demands to know what political views are unacceptable here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19288154&postcount=22), this is a laughable attempt to suggest some kind of extreme political bias in effect. Which is absolutely ludicrous. And now others have piled on with assertions of content-based banning, completely missing the point. Here’s the point as I see it. State your case, back it up, argue it with some modicum of intelligence, and you’ll be fine, unless you’re advocating something illegal or beyond all bounds of decency. Start trolling just to attract conflict and attention, and you won’t be fine. How is this a problem? The poster in question was deemed a troll because he went out of his way to declare a reprehensible and obviously confrontational POV with no interest in discussing it or even any evidence that he actually believed it, but did use the opportunity to escalate hostility and insults. This is not constructive and doesn’t represent any sort of honest argument, it’s pointless and disruptive. End of story. There are different kinds of trolls. Another banning that occurred not too long ago was an individual monomaniacially obsessed with one particular subject, and survived for quite a long period of time until the evidence for trolling became pretty much undeniable along with other transgressions. Among the indications of trolling was the simple fact that his arguments weren’t even consistent, so much so that in some cases arguments made at different times could be shown to be mutually contradictory. As long as he was making waves and the boat was rocking, that was all that mattered. And again, it had nothing to do with the content _per se_, but with fundamental dishonesty and disruptive intent. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/45 "2016-04-27T14:54:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW what I said is exactly correct. For some political positions, you must respond to abuse in the Pit by discussing your positions. Insulting back when you are insulted, in the Pit, is trolling. No mod notes, no warnings - you get banned, because it’s trolling to respond to insults with insults. In the Pit. > > Regards, > Shodan No Shodan. That’s not what happened. In fact, a mod mentioned in that thread that he was _trolling_. That comment wasn’t in the form of a warning or a mod note, but it did use the word _trolling_. That should have caused a second thought. I realize mods are posters too and free to post as they choose, but seriously, when a mod posts, as a poster, that you’re a troll, wtf do you think he’s thinking when, thereafter, he puts his mod hat on? A wise man would take note at such an event. Not to mention that others pointed out his trollish behavior too. **Shodan** , I agree with you often on this board. I enjoy reading what you post for the most part. But this time, I think you’re wrong. The departed poster knew what he was doing, and he made no effort to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/46 "2016-04-27T14:54:57Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > While I agree that discussion is always preferable, holocaust denial is hate speech in more than one country, and isn’t tolerated on this board. That alone should have been a banning offense. The trolling was just icing. Well, as I recall, he was only a semi-denier. But he e certainly violated the jerk rule. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/47 "2016-04-27T14:58:23Z")
There was no banning of **handsomeharry**. It never happened. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/48 "2016-04-27T15:02:23Z")
I don’t really care that **hh** was banned. I never engaged with him much, but he was clearly a jerk. Ask yourself: Is this MB better with our without him? So let’s just say he was banned for being a jerk and forget all the Nazi hand-waving/rationalizing. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/49 "2016-04-27T15:04:43Z")
I’m okay with something happening to his posting ability, although a warning or two would have made the inevitable banning seem less draconian. And, since he seemed determined to death-by-mod, he would have likely ignored a mod warning anyway. To me, he needed some kind of censure for his behavior in that thread. Yes, I know it’s the PIT, but still. He intentionally threw out an extreme position, and then ridiculed anyone who dared question it. Jerkish behavior? Yep. He directed incendiary remarks at people personally, stating them as facts, but provided no evidence to back up his “denier” claims. He was there purely to incite. Even the Pit should be better than that. I know the Pit has a different definition of “Don’t be a jerk” but still… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/50 "2016-04-27T15:05:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have quoted the original words, and pointed out the contradictions. Do you have any substantive response, or should you be banned for refusing to explain yourself? > > Regards, > Shodan You pointed out supposed contradictions in the “other words” you created from the original posts, perhaps. My “substantive response” is that the explanation **Miller** gave at the start of this thread for the banning was thorough and left no doubt in my mind that said banning was totally justified. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/51 "2016-04-27T15:10:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IOW yes, entirely. [QUOTE=Shodan] IOW [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shodan] IOW [/QUOTE] In the spirit of seeking common ground with political adversaries, I agree with you: in all three cases, those are indeed other words. This banning was entirely appropriate. I’m surprised that his comment about DaphneBlack, about how her sort was the sort who led to massacres (not explaining which side of the massacre she belonged on, which in this instance isn’t a trivial point), wasn’t included in the rationale for banning. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/52 "2016-04-27T15:16:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … Ask yourself: Is this MB better with our without him? … That’s an invalid test for anything related to membership on this board. Fortunately, that’s not been codified into any of the rules here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/53 "2016-04-27T15:20:27Z")
I suspect I could start a thread in the Pit along these lines: “I think the sky is green. No, I won’t tell you why, you’re not smart enough. Sheeple, you just believe everything people tell you! You idiots, thinking the sky is blue! Yep, you claim you have evidence that it’s blue, but you’re wrong!” and if I kept at it long enough, I’d also get banned for trolling. I probably wouldn’t keep at it long enough, first because I’m not the sort of jackass that does that sort of thing (I’m an entirely different sort of jackass) and second because I can’t imagine people would care enough to respond, leaving me no foils for my foolishness. But if I were a jackass, and if people cared enough to respond, that’d be a banning for trolling. If HH wants to do the same thing, only with a far more repugnant starting position, he can earn a banning fair and square. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/54 "2016-04-27T15:22:51Z")
On the other hand, I was actually hopeful HH would give us some idea why someone\* wanted\* to be a Nazi, unrelated to hating Jews and all that. It’s like someone saying, “You really must visit Italy, but not because of the food, wine, people or landscape.” and then not tell you what they meant. There are cetain things the Nazis are known for these days, but that was just the “German version” and he left us in the dark about what a non-German, non-violent, Nazi would be like.I suppose the trains would run on time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/55 "2016-04-27T15:26:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > On the other hand, I was actually hopeful HH would give us some idea why someone\* wanted\* to be a Nazi, unrelated to hating Jews and all that. Without getting too much into his deal, I can’t remember meeting a Neonazi on the Internet who was willing to engage in a frank and honest airing of their beliefs. HH’s approach, in which he refuses to stake out territory and instead just sneers at everyone that they’re too stoopid to understand the brilliant subtlety of his beliefs, is absolutely par for the course. I would have been amazed if he’d ever come clean. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/56 "2016-04-27T15:29:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Without getting too much into his deal, I can’t remember meeting a Neonazi on the Internet who was willing to engage in a frank and honest airing of their beliefs. HH’s approach, in which he refuses to stake out territory and instead just sneers at everyone that they’re too stoopid to understand the brilliant subtlety of his beliefs, is absolutely par for the course. I would have been amazed if he’d ever come clean. I am left with the impression that maybe it is the white supremacy that attracts them to the movement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/57 "2016-04-27T15:30:45Z")
The question which remains unanswered-why did he, after 15 years, all of a sudden decide to start down this particular path to perdition? Does anyone recall him acting like that years ago (or even a year ago)? Was he posting drunk, wife left him, took it out on the board? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/58 "2016-04-27T15:35:01Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > There was no banning of **handsomeharry**. It never happened. I’m going to semi-deny that this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/59 "2016-04-27T15:35:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I suspect I could start a thread in the Pit along these lines: > > “I think the sky is green. No, I won’t tell you why, you’re not smart enough. Sheeple, you just believe everything people tell you! You idiots, thinking the sky is blue! Yep, you claim you have evidence that it’s blue, but you’re wrong!” and if I kept at it long enough, I’d also get banned for trolling. > > … More like starting a thread on why I feel the Rape of Nanking was justified. Then responding to anyone questioning me with “I only semi believe it, but you’re too dumb to understand anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236/60 "2016-04-27T15:40:57Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The question which remains unanswered-why did he, after 15 years, all of a sudden decide to start down this particular path to perdition? Does anyone recall him acting like that years ago (or even a year ago)? Was he posting drunk, wife left him, took it out on the board? Good questions. As I mentioned in his now-closed Pit thread, I was unaware of his beliefs prior to that thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/handsomeharry-has-been-banned/753236.md?page=4)