# Hanna-Barbera. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 16, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653 "2018-11-16T23:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/21 "2018-11-17T09:11:42Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > The 70s in particular were a dismal time for American animation. H-B, Ruby-Spears, Filmation, and DePatie-Freleng were in a race to the bottom to see who could produce shows for the Saturday morning network cartoon ghetto the quickest and the cheapest. This, and it continued in the 80s, although the forces that turned two decades into a cartoon wasteland were not limited to budget and speed. Moralists trying to “sanitize” cartoons and the half-hour toy commercials played their part. I was a child of the 70s and 80s, but I was exposed to better quality cartoons first–classic Looney Tunes, the good Tom & Jerry cartoons, even Rocky and Bullwinkle. Consequently, even as a kid, I was aware that the quality of cartoons had taken a dive in terms of animation, humor, and storytelling. Cartoons were cripplingly infantilized. They were almost universally some combination of saccharine, badly animated, and obnoxiously repetitive (not to mention often direly stupid). I mostly watched and rewatched old cartoons and ignored the new ones. The 90s saw a cartoon renaissance. Animation started to improve, and cartoons were allowed to have serious themes and actual stories again. And, although I dislike most of Hanna-Barbera’s productions, I have to give credit where it’s due: I think one of the first attempts to get the revolution rolling was an H-B production, _The Pirates of Dark Water_. It was still plagued by many of the ills of the previous decade’s “story” cartoons, like the inevitable bumbling, annoying “comic relief” character, but it at least had an overarching story and made progress along its arc. Predictably, it didn’t last long. Fortunately, others were in the works–_Batman: The Animated Series_ came along soon after, and _Gargoyles_ a couple of years later. These were cartoons where people were allowed to die, and (perhaps more significantly) to change. They had real stories. They had classical references (especially _Gargoyles_). The early 90s broke us out of the cartoon doldrums and opened the medium up for the proliferation of cartoon styles that followed. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/22 "2018-11-17T10:55:53Z")
On one hand, most of their later stuff was cheap crank-em-out crap. On the other hand, without them we would never have had Space Ghost Coast to Coast. “Brak! Go to your room!” “But I’m not animated to do that!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/23 "2018-11-17T14:19:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Unlike Jay Ward, they didn’t use the limits of their budget as a chance to write creative scripts. Instead they stuck to repetitive jokes and plots. I’m still not going to say a word against Hong Kong Phooey. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/24 "2018-11-17T14:44:19Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > This, and it continued in the 80s, although the forces that turned two decades into a cartoon wasteland were not limited to budget and speed. Moralists trying to “sanitize” cartoons and the half-hour toy commercials played their part. I was a child of the 70s and 80s, but I was exposed to better quality cartoons first–classic Looney Tunes, the good Tom & Jerry cartoons, even Rocky and Bullwinkle. Consequently, even as a kid, I was aware that the quality of cartoons had taken a dive in terms of animation, humor, and storytelling. Cartoons were cripplingly infantilized. They were almost universally some combination of saccharine, badly animated, and obnoxiously repetitive (not to mention often direly stupid). I mostly watched and rewatched old cartoons and ignored the new ones. > > The 90s saw a cartoon renaissance. Animation started to improve, and cartoons were allowed to have serious themes and actual stories again. And, although I dislike most of Hanna-Barbera’s productions, I have to give credit where it’s due: I think one of the first attempts to get the revolution rolling was an H-B production, _The Pirates of Dark Water_. It was still plagued by many of the ills of the previous decade’s “story” cartoons, like the inevitable bumbling, annoying “comic relief” character, but it at least had an overarching story and made progress along its arc. > > Predictably, it didn’t last long. Fortunately, others were in the works–_Batman: The Animated Series_ came along soon after, and _Gargoyles_ a couple of years later. These were cartoons where people were allowed to die, and (perhaps more significantly) to change. They had real stories. They had classical references (especially _Gargoyles_). The early 90s broke us out of the cartoon doldrums and opened the medium up for the proliferation of cartoon styles that followed. Didn’t Adventures of the Gummi Bears, Ducktales and New Adventures of Mighty Mouse start an animation renaissance? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/25 "2018-11-17T14:55:50Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > Didn’t Adventures of the Gummi Bears, Ducktales and New Adventures of Mighty Mouse start an animation renaissance? John Kricfalusi was one who put the art back into animation with the highly expressive Ren & Stimpy. Too bad MTV ran it on Nickelodeon in some markets who tried to water it down and forced John K out. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/26 "2018-11-17T16:11:54Z")
> [@CastletonSnob](#): > > Didn’t Adventures of the Gummi Bears, Ducktales and New Adventures of Mighty Mouse start an animation renaissance? I will acknowledge _DuckTales_ as a breath of fresh air in the late 80s–it had quality animation and genuine humor. I regard it more as a return to form than as the beginning of the change, however. It was what cartoons should have been in those two decades, not what they were about to become. It was fluff–_good_ fluff, and I’m not denigrating fluff in general, as it certainly has its rightful place in the medium–but it was firmly within Disney’s wheelhouse in a way that _Gargoyles_, seven years later, was decidedly not. The cartoons of the 90s began to tell stories that were not “safe”. They allowed characters to change and grow. They experimented with forms of humor, storytelling, and art that were previously regarded as out-of-bounds for their audience. They branched out, exploring the range of the medium–this was the decade that brought us both the grim noir stylings of _Batman:TAS_ and the surreal absurdities of _Courage the Cowardly Dog_. The industry didn’t just return to making good cartoons; they began making entirely new kinds of cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/27 "2018-11-17T18:11:01Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > The cartoons of the 90s began to tell stories that were not “safe”. They allowed characters to change and grow. They experimented with forms of humor, storytelling, and art that were previously regarded as out-of-bounds for their audience. They branched out, exploring the range of the medium–this was the decade that brought us both the grim noir stylings of _Batman:TAS_ and the surreal absurdities of _Courage the Cowardly Dog_. The industry didn’t just return to making good cartoons; they began making entirely new kinds of cartoons. While true, they were highly influenced by Jay Ward, whose Rocky and Bullwinkle were doing that sort of sophisticated humor in the 60s. I’m sure most of those 90s creators would cite Jay Ward as an influence. Thing is, HB mass produced cartoons. A few of them were adequate to good. But they also did a ton of crap that no one remembers. ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/28 "2018-11-17T18:16:12Z")
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned “Top Cat,” another HB attempt at prime time success which ran on ABC in the 1961-62 season. It was all about a gang of alley cats who were always trying get-rich-quick schemes to improve their lot in life, but under the watchful eye of the local beat cop, who was wise to their tricks. It took place in New York City, and in its own way was a sort-of cross between Damon Runyan and Sergeant Bilko. It had some great voice actors too. Unfortunately “TC” only lasted one season, and except for a time of Saturday morning re-runs on NBC, pretty much disappeared. Huckleberry, Quick Draw and Yogi…those were classics. They were syndicated and ran on whatever local TV stations wanted to buy them. In fact, I remember watching them on the very same TV station that employs me today, nearly 60 years later. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/29 "2018-11-17T19:06:59Z")
Why hasn’t WB done more with the Hanna-Barbera characters? ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/30 "2018-11-17T19:22:19Z")
They put out _Future Quest_ and _Future Quest Presents_. Which were pretty good. They’ve tried modernizing several of the HB characters. Scooby Apocalypse seems popular. So far nearly all the rest have sank after a couple of issues. I really enjoyed the _Dastardly and Muttley_ mini-series. Too bad they’ll probably never bring it back. ---
**Author:** ![CastletonSnob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ea924/32.png) [@CastletonSnob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastletonSnob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/31 "2018-11-17T19:30:10Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > They put out _Future Quest_ and _Future Quest Presents_. Which were pretty good. They’ve tried modernizing several of the HB characters. Scooby Apocalypse seems popular. So far nearly all the rest have sank after a couple of issues. > I really enjoyed the _Dastardly and Muttley_ mini-series. Too bad they’ll probably never bring it back. I’m talking about rebooting old HB shows. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/32 "2018-11-17T20:09:30Z")
Filmation deserves praise for the animated _ **Star Trek** _. Yes, the animation itself was cheap-o, but the writing and the voice talent were excellent. Fans consider it the last two years of Kirk’s five-year mission. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/33 "2018-11-17T20:16:35Z")
I loved both _ **Top Cat** _ and _ **The Jetsons** _ when I was a kid. I don’t know if it wasn’t better for them to end when they did, though, rather than get old and stale. The same goes for _ **Jonny Quest** _, another great favorite. The best shows always seem to go out when they know they’re on top. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/34 "2018-11-17T20:51:29Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > While true, they were highly influenced by Jay Ward, whose Rocky and Bullwinkle were doing that sort of sophisticated humor in the 60s. I’m sure most of those 90s creators would cite Jay Ward as an influence. Certainly Ward influenced the humor, and that humor is one reason I mentioned Rocky and Bullwinkle in my earlier post. The changes went well beyond humor, though, and in many different directions. > [@](#): > > Thing is, HB mass produced cartoons. A few of them were adequate to good. But they also did a ton of crap that no one remembers. Yes, Sturgeon’s Law applies, beyond a doubt. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/35 "2018-11-17T21:27:25Z")
what people forget is hanna barbera was sold at least 3 times before ted turner bought them and the various owners changed the formula of the shows that’s why all the slapstick humor of the 50s and 60s changed in the 70s ……. because af some point jayne barbera took over and she didn’t like “violent” cartoons …… so that’s how and why we received yogis ark and all the crud after ….until turner and then warners bought hb and the cartoon network although they did have success with syndicated specials like "yogis first xmas, "top cat goes to Hollywood " and others turners reign was hit and miss…anyone remember “two stupid dogs” and tom and jerry kids? well the tom and jerry part anyways …. the droopy shorts got their own show eventually …… the johnny quest remake would of been good except it got bogged down in an cheesy vr concept …. actually you know what saved Saturday animation in the 80s? the smurfs … when they first came on they had higher ratings several nbc shows other wise theyed of had the same schedule on Saturdays they have now ……a weekend today show sports and local syndicated fluff ……. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/36 "2018-11-17T21:32:39Z")
but jay ward wasn’t making cartoons for kids the flinstones and jetsons was hbs last attempt at at adult fare for decades and even they made the flintstones kid friendly eventually ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/37 "2018-11-17T21:39:48Z")
I recall watching the Hanna Barbera cartoons when they first came out – by the way, nobody mentioned their FIRST show, pre-=Huckleberry Hound. It was **Ruff and Ready** : Even as a kid I could see they were cheaply made and not terrifically funny. We watched them because they were on. They made me wonder for several years why their cartoon animals had collars and cuffs. It was so that they could recycle body and head motions and not have the joint between them being obvious. well, they were a step above those also motionless Cambria productions _Space Angel_ and _Clutch Cargo_, with that damned Synchro-Vox. I’ll give them points for the adventure show _JOhnny Quest_, which was cool, and they get an Attaboy for trying to branch out with _Wait 'til your Father Gets Home_, but H-B was pretty predicatble, boring stuff for the most part “McDonald’s of animation,” indeed. No wonder the advertisers loved them. Gimme Jay Ward’s stuff. Or even Shull Bonsall (whose Capital Enterprises got control of the characters and made the later CRusader Rabbit episodes, but still with wonderful punning and wit. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/38 "2018-11-17T22:42:21Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I loved both _ **Top Cat** _ and _ **The Jetsons** _ when I was a kid. I don’t know if it wasn’t better for them to end when they did, though, rather than get old and stale. I take it, then, that you didn’t see the Jetsons revival in the mid-1980s, as well as the theatrical movie (with singer Tiffany as the voice of Judy)? > [@jz78817](#): > > John Kricfalusi was one who put the art back into animation with the highly expressive Ren & Stimpy. Too bad MTV ran it on Nickelodeon in some markets who tried to water it down and forced John K out. Er, Ren & Stimpy ran on Nickelodeon nationwide; it was one of the “original three” Sunday morning cartoons (along with Doug and Rugrats), and ran until 1997, when it was replaced on Sundays by Hey Arnold!. But you’re right about Nickelodeon watering it down. However, I don’t think Nick “forced John K out” as “drove him to the point where he left the show.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/39 "2018-11-17T22:52:16Z")
Talk about recycling… Am I remembering correctly that every episode of Scooby Doo was essentially the same? The crew goes somewhere/stumbles onto something that they shouldn’t. Scary things ensue, with some friendly person/persons you were introduced to in the opening scenes inevitably being unmasked as the instigators of said scary happenings, and their plot to take over the world, or whatever, is upended. If I am, I hated Scooby Doo for this reason. If I am not, never mind… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653/40 "2018-11-17T23:13:32Z")
_Scooby Doo_ drove me away from watching cartoons. It was horrible, and yet it was very successful, showing up lots and lots and lots. ☹ The 70s were awful for cartoons, as mentioned. The late-80s and early-90s saw a return of decent cartoons, with the aforementioned _Duck Tales_, followed by _Darkwing Duck_ and the brilliant _Animaniacs_. How such wonderful stuff ended up being swallowed up by the likes of _Ed, Edd n Eddy_, I will never know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanna-barbera/824653.md?page=3)