# Hanukah Goes into 2006?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990 "2005-11-08T00:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/1 "2005-11-08T00:59:46Z")
Can any other MOTs remember any other year when Hanukah started so late? I seem to remember one year when it started Dec. 26, but when was that? In any event, Hanukah now goes _beyond_ Christmas, all the way into 2006 (Gregorian). Yay! ;j ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/2 "2005-11-08T01:06:55Z")
[This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah) suggests that it was almost as late in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/3 "2005-11-08T01:11:55Z")
Last year was a Hebrew leap year, the extra month necessary to ensure that Passover took place in the spring. Since Passover would have _just barely_ missed spring without the leap month, the leap month made all Jewish holidays for 2005 very, very late. I believe this year does mark the latest that they come out. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/4 "2005-11-11T02:48:02Z")
> [@633squadron](#): > > Can any other MOTs remember any other year when Hanukah started so late? I seem to remember one year when it started Dec. 26, but when was that? > > In any event, Hanukah now goes _beyond_ Christmas, all the way into 2006 (Gregorian). Yay! ;j So late? - isn’t it always the 25th of Kislev? 😉 Seriously though, Hanukah started on the 27th in 1986, the 25th in 1978, 27th in 1967. You can go through some dates to see when Hanukah will be [here](http://www.hebcal.com/converter/). ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/5 "2005-11-11T03:33:40Z")
How often is it on the same day as Christmas? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/6 "2005-11-11T09:15:21Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > So late? - isn’t it always the 25th of Kislev? 😉 > > Seriously though, Hanukah started on the 27th in 1986, the 25th in 1978, 27th in 1967. You can go through some dates to see when Hanukah will be [here](http://www.hebcal.com/converter/). 1967 + 19 = 1986, so the fact that it started on the same Gregorian date both years is not exactly surprising! That’s because the Jewish calendar has a 19-year cycle with 7 leap-months, that together add up to 19 Gregorian years. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/7 "2005-11-11T16:55:17Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > 1967 + 19 = 1986, so the fact that it started on the same Gregorian date both years is not exactly surprising! That’s because the Jewish calendar has a 19-year cycle with 7 leap-months, that together add up to 19 Gregorian years. I don’t think that’s quite right. The Jewish calendar is on a 19 year cycle, but that doesn’t mean every 19 years Hanukah will begin on the 27th. Converting between the Jewish and Gregorian calendar is a little more complicated than that. Here are a couple references concerning the Jewish calendar: [Jewish Calendar](http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/passover/jewish-calendar-hebrew.html) [Judaism 101 - The Jewish Calendar: A Closer Look](http://www.jewfaq.org/calendr2.htm) [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_calendar) [Hebrew Calendar Conversion Sample Code in VB.Net](http://www.geocities.com/DafAWeek/HebCal.html) ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/8 "2005-11-11T18:06:09Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > I don’t think that’s quite right. The Jewish calendar is on a 19 year cycle, but that doesn’t mean every 19 years Hanukah will begin on the 27th. Converting between the Jewish and Gregorian calendar is a little more complicated than that. Generally speaking, the Gregorian and Jewish calendars will sync up again every 19 years. However, the system is not perfect. 19 Jewish years are actually about 2 hours longer than 19 Gregorian Years. As a result, there is a shift of one day every 216 years. Therefore, as time goes on Channukah _will_ come out later than it does now (although maybe not in my lifetime). Eventually, some correction will be needed - or else the messiah will come and the problem will be fixed then. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/9 "2005-11-11T19:02:27Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > However, the system is not perfect. 19 Jewish years are actually about 2 hours longer than 19 Gregorian Years. As a result, there is a shift of one day every 216 years. I am confused by this. Could you please explain? Does this suggest that one of the two has days that longer/shorter than the other? ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/10 "2005-11-11T19:50:43Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Generally speaking, the Gregorian and Jewish calendars will sync up again every 19 years. While its true the number of days will sync up, the actual dates do not. With 7 leaps years and Cheshvan and Kislev both varying in the number of days per month, the actual dates are close, but not always the same. Take the last 4 19 year cycles. The current cycle of 19 began in 1997, with the preceding cycles starting in 1978, 1959 and 1940, respectively. In order: 1940, 1959, 1978, 1997 Year 1 (starting with 1940): Dec 25, Dec 26, Dec 25, Dec 24 Year 2 (starting with 1941): Dec 15, Dec 14, Dec 15, Dec 14 Year 3 (starting with 1942): Dec 4, Dec 3, Dec 3, Dec 4 Year 4 (starting with 1943): Dec 22, Dec 22, Dec 21, Dec 22 Year 5 (starting with 1944): Dec 11, Dec 11, Dec 11, Dec 10 Year 6 (starting with 1945): Nov 30, Nov 30, Dec 1, Nov 30 Year 7 (starting with 1946): Dec 18, Dec 19, Dec 19, Dec 20 Year 8 (starting with 1947): Dec 8, Dec 8, Dec 8, Dec 8 Year 9 (starting with 1948): Dec 27, Dec 27, Dec 27, Dec 26 Year 10 (starting with 1949): Dec 16, Dec 16, Dec 16, Dec 16 Year 11 (starting with 1950): Dec 4, Dec 5, Dec 4, Dec 5 Year 12 (starting with 1951): Dec 24, Dec 23, Dec 23, Dec 22 Year 13 (starting with 1952): Dec 4, Dec 3, Dec 3, Dec 4 Year 14 (starting with 1953): Dec 2, Dec 1, Dec 2, Dec 2 Year 15 (starting with 1954): Dec 20, Dec 20, Dec 20, Dec 21 Year 16 (starting with 1955): Dec 10, Dec 9, Dec 9, Dec 9 Year 17 (starting with 1956): Nov 29, Nov 29, Nov 28, Nov 28 Year 18 (starting with 1957): Dec 18, Dec 17, Dec 18, Dec 17 Year 19 (starting with 1958): Dec 7, Dec 5, Dec 6, Dec 7 So maybe I’m going a bit overboard here, but the Jewish calendar doesn’t work out easy enough to say that Hanukah begins on Dec 25th every 19 years - saying so oversimplifies the Jewish calendar and the engineer in me cries foul! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/11 "2005-11-11T20:20:42Z")
> [@PastAllReason](#): > > I am confused by this. Could you please explain? Does this suggest that one of the two has days that longer/shorter than the other? Quick attempt: The length of time it takes for the earth to complete its orbit around the sun is approximately 365.26 days to orbit the sun. The earth takes approximately 24 hours to rotate on its axis. In order for the Gregorian calendar and Jewish calendars to not “lose time” using days they both incorporate “leap years” where either (or both) a day or month is added to the year so that there is no change in the seasons (long term). In any given year, the Gregorian nor the Jewish calendar align with the solar year, because you can not have partial days. It’s over time that both calendars attempt to align with the solar year. It’s in this attempt that the Jewish calendar would be off from the Gregorian, because they do not use the same number of days - they just try to average to the same number of days over a period of time. It’s their long term average that is off by hours. ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/12 "2005-11-12T03:24:55Z")
Thanks, **gooftroopag** for the explanation. I learned something new today. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/13 "2005-11-12T04:10:20Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Eventually, some correction will be needed - or else the messiah will come and the problem will be fixed then. > > Zev Steinhardt Hear tell he already came and why we celebrate 2005 A.D. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/14 "2005-11-12T13:24:07Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > While its true the number of days will sync up, the actual dates do not. With 7 leaps years and Cheshvan and Kislev both varying in the number of days per month, the actual dates are close, but not always the same. > > … (snip interesting data. It’s not that far up if you want to read it again!) > > So maybe I’m going a bit overboard here, but the Jewish calendar doesn’t work out easy enough to say that Hanukah begins on Dec 25th every 19 years - saying so oversimplifies the Jewish calendar and the engineer in me cries foul! 🙂 I _know_ I was oversimplifying. But I wanted to work the 19-year cycle into this thread and I was pressed for time. I knew I could count on at least 5 Dopes to come along and pick all the nits I had left lying around 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/15 "2005-11-12T13:40:46Z")
cmkeller: Some time ago I ran across a web site from what I basically must call an extremely fundamentalist Jewish sect. Sadly, I can’t recall the name of the sect. The site was mainly concerned with the calendar and was pretty adamant about not having any leap months. Have you heard of such an outfit? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/16 "2005-11-12T13:54:23Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > I _know_ I was oversimplifying. But I wanted to work the 19-year cycle into this thread and I was pressed for time. I knew I could count on at least 5 Dopes to come along and pick all the nits I had left lying around 😃 **Dope_r_s** , even :smack: Freud would have been proud of me 😛 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/17 "2005-11-13T02:05:30Z")
Monty: > [@](#): > > Some time ago I ran across a web site from what I basically must call an extremely fundamentalist Jewish sect. Sadly, I can’t recall the name of the sect. The site was mainly concerned with the calendar and was pretty adamant about not having any leap months. Have you heard of such an outfit? Nope. I’ve never heard of anyone objecting to leap months in the Jewish calendar cycle. Muslims use a lunar calendar with no leap months, and as a result their months roll around the solar year. Maybe it was a Muslim site. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/18 "2005-11-13T02:50:28Z")
> [@633squadron](#): > > Can any other MOTs remember any other year when Hanukah started so late? I seem to remember one year when it started Dec. 26, but when was that? > > In any event, Hanukah now goes _beyond_ Christmas, all the way into 2006 (Gregorian). Yay! ;j MOTs? Mothers of Time? Medicinally Organized Truckers? I give - what’s an MOT? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/19 "2005-11-13T06:45:10Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Monty: > > Nope. I’ve never heard of anyone objecting to leap months in the Jewish calendar cycle. > > Muslims use a lunar calendar with no leap months, and as a result their months roll around the solar year. Maybe it was a Muslim site. Nope. Definitely a Jewish site. FWIW, I also recall they had a big problem with much of Rabbinic Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990/20 "2005-11-13T07:02:43Z")
Karaites, maybe? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hanukah-goes-into-2006/329990.md?page=2)