# Happy Birthday to Stephen Sondhein and Andrew Lloyd Webber **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528 "2002-03-22T14:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/1 "2002-03-22T14:15:54Z")
Every year on March 22nd, the musical theatre community ponders the question of how thes two giants could be born on the same date. So, happy 72nd Steve and 54th Andy. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/2 "2002-03-22T15:41:06Z")
… and also how much those two artist contrast eachother. Webber the popular, some might even say commercial writer who is practically a household name; and Sondheim, bordering on genius, with immense wit in his lyrics and music, who is much less well known outside of theater circles. Both men have certainly left their indellible stamp on the musical theater world. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/3 "2002-03-22T16:49:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\*.Both men have certainly left their indellible stamp on the musical theater world. \*\* And musical theater is worse because of it. Sondheim is the most overrated songwriter in Broadway history, a man incapable of writing a decent tune. He’s a clever lyricist, but under the slick surface he’s not particularly sophisticated and has very little depth. Webber is a better songwriter (faint praise – most of his stuff is as mediocre as Sondheim’s, but he does have the ability to write a good song from time to time), but most of his shows are mere spectacle without substance. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/4 "2002-03-22T17:16:11Z")
Hm… I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say in the same breath (or post) that Sondheim isn’t sophisticated and has little depth, and then say that Webber is a better songwriter. I’m not going to bash your opinion (although I’d like to, oh how I’d like to :D), but I’m curious as to whether or not you’re a musician or an actor/singer or something? I enjoy Webber but my opinion is that _most_ of his stuff has about as much sophistication and depth as a Backstreet Boys tune. Sondheim on the other hand excells in making the most unusual chord progressions and harmonies sound natural. Wish I had a score or a cd or something here so I could give some examples. Ah well, to each their own I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/5 "2002-03-23T19:54:07Z")
Isn’t the “Cats” guy’s last name, appropriately “Lloyd Webber” and not just “Webber.” Sort of like David Lloyd George. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/6 "2002-03-23T21:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*Isn’t the “Cats” guy’s last name, appropriately “Lloyd Webber” and not just “Webber.” > Sort of like David Lloyd George. \*\* Yes “Lloyd Webber” is his last name. Double last names are common in England, but we Americans don’t seem to be able to catch on to that. Andrew is usually found under “W,” though brother Julian, classical cellist, is usually under “L.” A good biography of ALW and Sondheim was published last year by Steven Citron, titled (what else?) Sondheim and Lloyd-Webber. ---
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/7 "2002-03-24T11:19:44Z")
may this be the last one for both of them. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/8 "2002-03-24T17:02:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\* > Sondheim is the most overrated songwriter in Broadway history, a man incapable of writing a decent tune. He’s a clever lyricist, but under the slick surface he’s not particularly sophisticated and has very little depth. \*\* I completely disagree: before his reputation as **STEPHEN SONDHEIM-SUPER GENIUS** overtook him, he wrote quite a few wonderful tunes. Think of the musical \*\*A Funny Thing Happened To Me on the Way to the Forum: \*\* Lovely My Bride Comedy Tonight Pretty Little Picture **A Little Night Music** Send in the Clowns **Company** Ladies Who Lunch Another Hundred People. He’s got a song from an unproduced (until now) musical that he wrote in the '60s. The musical was called “Saturday Night” and the song is “What More do I Need” which is one of my all-time favorite show-tunes. The man CAN write a tune if he chooses. Unfortuantely, I think he’s so impressed with his reputation as **STEPHEN SONDHEIM-SUPER GENIUS** that he’s decided not to write songs that are accessible to “the masses”. But if you look at his earlier stuff… Fenris ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/9 "2002-03-24T21:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > **Company** > Ladies Who Lunch > Another Hundred People. Also from **Company** , Being Alive. My response to this song is influenced by the fact that I saw the show a couple of hours after being getting _that_ letter from the woman I thought I as going to marry; but it still moves me to tears. Anyway, to expand on what **Fenris** said (or perhaps merely to restate it), IMHO both Sondheim and Lloyd Webber started downhill when they began taking themselves seriously. At that point their music took on an increasingly “operatic” tone–and while I admit to being a sucker for richness and intricacy (both instrumental and vocal), it gets to the point of interfering with the show, not enhancing it. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiegrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Pixiegrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiegrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-birthday-to-stephen-sondhein-and-andrew-lloyd-webber/99528/10 "2002-03-25T04:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > And musical theater is worse because of it. > > Sondheim is the most overrated songwriter in Broadway history, a man incapable of writing a decent tune. He’s a clever lyricist, but under the slick surface he’s not particularly sophisticated and has very little depth. Good lord, man…are you serious? His work is layered with complex harmonies…Who is your favorite? So curious…I mean even when people don’t care for his style they still give credit where credit is due…You’re, of course, entitled to your opinion. I’m just interested in who your favorites are.