# Happy now Clothahump? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312 "2006-01-04T00:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/401 "2006-01-07T20:25:35Z")
I don’t really see any questions you asked of me that I haven’t answered. You have made some claims and you feel I am obligated to respond. Point out something specific and I’ll do it. One thing I saw on reread was that you call the billions in remittences “tax free dollars”. How did you come to that conclusion? Is all of this money coming solely from the illegals? And how would you know that?None is being sent from legal residents? And how woulfd you know that? And how is it tax free? Don’t employers in the US withold taxes? So in all actuality this money is money earned from their labor. Why would you, the US government or anyone else have any claim to it? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/402 "2006-01-07T21:59:55Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Maybe some day your little boy will do something stupid like throw a rock at a cop. If he gets killed in retaliation will you still be whistling the same tune? And maybe some day my nephew will drive drunk and then pull a knife on the cop who stops him. He will then be shot. And you know what? It will be tragic. And it will be HIS fault. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/403 "2006-01-07T22:06:31Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > And maybe some day my nephew will drive drunk and then pull a knife on the cop who stops him. He will then be shot. And you know what? It will be tragic. And it will be HIS fault. Written with a true father’s compassion. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/404 "2006-01-07T22:12:50Z")
Regarding the idea that “those are jobs that Americans won’t do.” Seriously, what do people think happens in Montana, or Vermont, or Maine, or Idaho? Americans for the overwhelming part are bussing tables, scrubbing toilets, running day care, cleaning houses, mowing lawns. If illegal immigration were curtailed, I really suspect that what we’d get is a lot more teenagers getting jobs for the slightly better pay instead of playing so many video games. It would be more worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/405 "2006-01-07T22:15:25Z")
I was unaware that compassion and sadness precludes the use of logic. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/406 "2006-01-08T01:03:46Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Its amazing the lengths some of you are going to to justify some chickenshit border cop using excessive force. We really don’t know that yet. If he threw the rock, ran away, and was shot in the back, then yeah sure excessive force. But if he threw a rock, was in position to throw another, and had alot of rocks availabe, then it’s a different story. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/407 "2006-01-08T01:49:58Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > We really don’t know that yet. If he threw the rock, ran away, and was shot in the back, then yeah sure excessive force. But if he threw a rock, was in position to throw another, and had alot of rocks availabe, then it’s a different story. A Tijuana newspaper reports that the autopsy shows the bullet entered from the back and exited his chest. The shooter shot from a higher elevation. It also says American authorities were present at the autopsy. "Castro Trenti indicó que en la necropsia del cuerpo del migrante originario de Jalisco **estuvieron presentes autoridades de Estados Unidos**. Detalló que los resultados de la investigación arrojan que el asesino de Martínez Rodríguez realizó el disparo a una altura mayor a la de la víctima y que la bala penetró por la espalda y salió por el pecho." ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/408 "2006-01-08T01:55:41Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > And maybe some day my nephew will drive drunk and then pull a knife on the cop who stops him. He will then be shot. And you know what? It will be tragic. And it will be HIS fault. What if he dropped the knife and turned to run? Would shooting him in the back be justified? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/409 "2006-01-08T02:00:49Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Regarding the idea that “those are jobs that Americans won’t do.” Seriously, what do people think happens in Montana, or Vermont, or Maine, or Idaho? Americans for the overwhelming part are bussing tables, scrubbing toilets, running day care, cleaning houses, mowing lawns. > > If illegal immigration were curtailed, I really suspect that what we’d get is a lot more teenagers getting jobs for the slightly better pay instead of playing so many video games. It would be more worth it. I have a similar, but different, opinion. When I get into these debates and people say “but if we get rid of illegal immgrant labour, the price of produce from California/etc will go up”, my response is “Good. If the cost of paying people a better wage means that the cost of food goes up, so be it.” Get rid of the illegal immigrants by any means not prohibited by the Rights according to all people in the Constitution, and soon. Prevent any more illegal immigrants from entering. Especially the cases where heavily pregnant women are putting the health of themselves and their children at risk to enter the country illegally so their child can be covered under the 14th Amendment. Get legal workers to do legal work. Pay legal workers a living wage and give them some access to health benefits. Seems like something both sides should be able to agree upon. And yet… ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/410 "2006-01-08T02:06:51Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > que la bala penetró por la espalda y salió por el pecho." Well then. You have a point. I can think of scenarios where a back shooting might legitimately happen such as an extended rock throwing, retreating, and rock throwing some more type situation. But it certainly sounds damning. Of course, in the heat of the moment mistakes can be made. I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t feel that the rock thrower probably had it coming. But generally, LE shouldn’t go around shooting fleeing folks in the back. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/411 "2006-01-08T02:19:03Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > OK here you go. > > A proposal was passed unanomously by all Mexican political parties in the Chamber of Deputies and submitted to the head of Foreign Relations (equivalent to the US Stae Dept.) and asked to be tabled at talks on immigration reform. > > It proposes a guest worker program where people would be allowed to stay and work a determined amount of time and then be required to return to Mexico for another set period of time. They would be required to post a monetary bond and pay a fee to cover the costs of the paperwork. > > The article quotes one of the pols saying that the idea has the backing of several US congressmen. > > It also states that they believe it would go far towards putting the coyotes out of business. Thank You, this is a wonderful proposal that would help both countries. Anything that seriously hurt the business of the coyotes would be positive, these are people I place in the same boat as drug dealers. They should get very harsh punishments whenever caught and there basic business should somehow be regulated. This might be the way to do and still leave Big business happy and help the actual guest workers. > [@CBEscapee](#): > > What if he dropped the knife and turned to run? Would shooting him in the back be justified? If he had stabbed the cop yes, if he waved and dropped it no. But even running from a cop/Border patrol can draw fire and is a foolish act that could result in being wrongfully shot. The Cop would probably get in minimal trouble and the person shot could end up dead or maimed. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/412 "2006-01-08T02:20:06Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Pay legal workers a living wage and give them some access to health benefits. > > Seems like something both sides should be able to agree upon. And yet… An interesting debate on another forum had someone pointing that he needed a fence put in that required post holes to be dug the old fashion way (post hole diggers). There was an abundant source of college kids in the area. He advertised the job at $12 an hour. Only illegal immigrants showed up. Sometimes it isn’t the wages. I’m going to be racist here. But it’s hard to find black people or white people to do certain types of work even for a seemingly decent wage. The oilfield (pipeliners, roustabouts, pulling unit hands, and roughnecks and drillers) is seemingly dominated by Mexican-Americans born of people who came here illegally originally or who were Amnestied back in the past century. It’s not the bad pay, it’s the hard work that keeps whites and blacks away from those jobs. In my opinion anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/413 "2006-01-08T02:48:35Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > A Tijuana newspaper reports that the autopsy shows the bullet entered from the back and exited his chest. The shooter shot from a higher elevation. It also says American authorities were present at the autopsy. So your argument is that the BD officer couldn’t be in danger because he was at a higher elevation? Or what? It says a lot about you that you didn’t bring this up so that people could follow the story, but jumped over chasms to your conclusion. The fact is that you DON’T know what happened, or if the kid looked like he was gathering more rocks, or what exactly. My respect for your opinion on this has sunk so low that I may not even come back to find out what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/414 "2006-01-08T03:22:36Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > The oilfield (pipeliners, roustabouts, pulling unit hands, and roughnecks and drillers) is seemingly dominated by Mexican-Americans born of people who came here illegally originally or who were Amnestied back in the past century. It’s not the bad pay, it’s the hard work that keeps whites and blacks away from those jobs. In my opinion anyway. I worked on drilling rigs for a number of years. In Texas. All of the roughnecks were white, except one crew I worked on had 2 blacks (sometimes both of them at once, sometimes one or the other). I never saw a Mexican roughneck, the Mexicans worked on pulling units, but white guys were working on those, too. One year ('81) I made more money than my dad, who was Postmaster at the time with over 25 years of civil service time. So the pay wasn’t all that bad, and there were plenty of whites doing it. We liked the hard work. You could literally quit one one job and walk to a different rig and get another job. There are Mexican roughnecks here now, it’s been a while since I’ve worked in the oilfield. Still plenty of white guys doing. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/415 "2006-01-08T03:51:17Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > I worked on drilling rigs for a number of years. In Texas. > > All of the roughnecks were white, except one crew I worked on had 2 blacks (sometimes both of them at once, sometimes one or the other). I never saw a Mexican roughneck, the Mexicans worked on pulling units, but white guys were working on those, too. One year ('81) I made more money than my dad, who was Postmaster at the time with over 25 years of civil service time. So the pay wasn’t all that bad, and there were plenty of whites doing it. We liked the hard work. You could literally quit one one job and walk to a different rig and get another job. > > There are Mexican roughnecks here now, it’s been a while since I’ve worked in the oilfield. Still plenty of white guys doing. I roughnecked one summer during college in the 90’s. A good number of Mexicans then, including drillers. No tool pushers though. My grandad pushed tools until the mid 80s and when he retired he had all Mexican crews. There are still alot of whites in the Permian Basin oilpatch for sure. But it is pretty heavily Hispanic, especially pulling units, roustabout crews, and pipeliners. I hear more Spansih language ads for employment with service companies than on English ones. Or it seems that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/416 "2006-01-08T04:31:11Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > So your argument is that the BD officer couldn’t be in danger because he was at a higher elevation? Or what? It says a lot about you that you didn’t bring this up so that people could follow the story, but jumped over chasms to your conclusion. The fact is that you DON’T know what happened, or if the kid looked like he was gathering more rocks, or what exactly. My respect for your opinion on this has sunk so low that I may not even come back to find out what it is. All I did was quote the article and I get shit like this? Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/417 "2006-01-08T05:06:54Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > All I did was quote the article and I get shit like this? Fuck you. You’ve been saying this whole thread that you’ve already made up your mind. You’re as close minded as the come. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/418 "2006-01-08T05:39:48Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Well, for one thing, I’m still waiting for those cites which indicate he was shot in the back. You don’t have to wait any longer. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/419 "2006-01-08T06:03:37Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > But even running from a cop/Border patrol can draw fire and is a foolish act that could result in being wrongfully shot. The Cop would probably get in minimal trouble and the person shot could end up dead or maimed. > > Jim I have never said it was a smart thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/420 "2006-01-08T06:20:56Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong You’re wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312.md?page=22)