# Happy now Clothahump?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 4, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312 "2006-01-04T00:50:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/141 "2006-01-05T01:50:06Z")
I’ve got to hand this much to **CBe** :
Most of the time when some clod Pits something that puts them way outside the bounds of reason, and they get jumped on by logic, fact and reason, after a few insults and some flaming, they just sulk away.
He’s hanging in here. Granted, he’s dodging questions, throwing clay pigeons and 800 lb gorillas (Thanks **Doors** ) and standing by whatever principle or rationale he originally had, even if it’s still incomprehensible to most everyone else, but he’s here.
He’s **Andrew** in Mexico. :wally
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/142 "2006-01-05T02:36:38Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#):
>
> I’ve got to hand this much to **CBe** :
>
> Most of the time when some clod Pits something that puts them way outside the bounds of reason, and they get jumped on by logic, fact and reason, after a few insults and some flaming, they just sulk away.
>
> He’s hanging in here. Granted, he’s dodging questions, throwing clay pigeons and 800 lb gorillas (Thanks **Doors** ) and standing by whatever principle or rationale he originally had, even if it’s still incomprehensible to most everyone else, but he’s here.
>
> He’s **Andrew** in Mexico. :wally
What’s incomprehensible to many Americans makes sense to many other people in the world.
And show me please a question I’ve dodged.
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### Author:  [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/143 "2006-01-05T02:45:12Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> What’s incomprehensible to many Americans makes sense to many other people in the world.
>
> And show me please a question I’ve dodged.
Well there’s some generalization for you, eh? Simply put then, Americans couldn’t possibly understand why other countries think we should open our borders, and why it’s ok to assault law enforcement with rocks and not expect to get targeted because the law in other countries is always administered so even-handedly, right? Because everyone knows that only a Gringo lawman would ever shoot someone for assualting him/her with rocks, right?
And I only had to go to back as recently as post 136 to find the most recent question begging a logical answer from you.
I repeat: :wally
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/144 "2006-01-05T02:46:18Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> And show me please a question I’ve dodged.
Well, for one thing, I’m still waiting for those cites which indicate he was shot in the back.
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/145 "2006-01-05T02:48:17Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#):
>
> Well, for one thing, I’m still waiting for those cites which indicate he was shot in the back.
Since you had already decided that Mexican authorities would be lying I don’t see the point.
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### Author:  [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/146 "2006-01-05T02:50:47Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> Since you had already decided that Mexican authorities would be lying I don’t see the point.
Duck and weave baby, duck and weave!!!
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/147 "2006-01-05T02:52:08Z")
CBEscapee: do you find it at all strange that liberal, moderates and conservatives all seem to think your point is weak and shrill?
It rare that this collection all agrees on something and yet we overwhelmingly seem to think your argument is crap.
Just something to think over.
Jim
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/148 "2006-01-05T02:53:48Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> Since you had already decided that Mexican authorities would be lying I don’t see the point.
Humor me. Or have you no cites to give me? You claim you had them, I’ve asked to see them, twice now. This is the third time.
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### Author:  [@13M13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/13M13)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/149 "2006-01-05T03:28:44Z")
**CBEscapee** , why are you so distraught about this? If an American had tried to illegally enter another country and was shot and killed after threatening a police authority, would I make any attempt to defend the American’s actions? I think not. I don’t get it…
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### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/150 "2006-01-05T03:39:57Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#):
>
> Well, for one thing, I’m still waiting for those cites which indicate he was shot in the back.
[Here](http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios.php?codigo=MEX&pagina=http://www.frontera.info)
\*“Los peritajes revelan que recibió un balazo de calibre 9 milímetros mientras estaba en territorio de EU Elementos de la Patrulla Fronteriza estadounidense asesinaron por la espalda y a una distancia menor de cinco metros a Guillermo Martínez Rodríguez, cuando trataba de internarse de manera ilegal a Estados Unidos, reveló la Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado (PGJE)”
“Con relación a la agresión, explicó que el disparo lo hicieron a una distancia mayor de 2 metros, pero menor de 5 metros, con una pistola 9 milímetros.”\*
---
### Author:  [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/151 "2006-01-05T03:43:05Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#):
>
> CBEscapee: do you find it at all strange that liberal, moderates and conservatives all seem to think your point is weak and shrill?
>
> It rare that this collection all agrees on something and yet we overwhelmingly seem to think your argument is crap.
>
> Just something to think over.
>
> Jim
No I don’t find it strange. It was pretty much what I expected.
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/152 "2006-01-05T04:07:01Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> \*"…balazo de calibre 9 milímetros mientras estaba en territorio de EU Elementos de la Patrulla Fronteriza estadounidense asesinaron por la espalda y a una distancia menor de cinco metros…
>
> Con relación a la agresión, explicó que el disparo lo hicieron a una distancia mayor de 2 metros, pero menor de 5 metros, con una pistola 9 milímetros."\*
Ok, so he was shot in the back from a distance of more than 2 meters, but less than 5 meters. I wonder how they assessed this. For distances greater than about 3 1/2 feet (just over one meter), there is neither soot stippling nor gunshot residue present in sufficient quantities to further make a determination as to the firing distance with small-caliber arms. See this [basic text](http://web2.iadfw.net/uthman/forensic_path.html) on forensic pathology:
> [@](#):
>
> **Distant (greater than 1.5 - 3.5 feet):** This is too far for either soot or burning propellant to travel, so the wound margins are clean, with neither fouling nor stippling. Entrance versus exit wounds represents an important distinction for the forensic pathologist to make.
Certainly the range give, 2-5 meters falls well outside the ability of a forensic determination to be made in such a case. A shotgun wound is a different matter, since the shot spread can give a close-order approximation of the shooting distance. But a bullet wound has no such distance-related characteristics beyond shot residue and expelled particulates. Based on this–and this alone–I must question the validity of your cite.
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### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/153 "2006-01-05T04:07:13Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#):
>
> Duck and weave baby, duck and weave!!!
Doesn’t the Rope-a-dope require hitting back at some point?
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/154 "2006-01-05T04:24:50Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#):
>
> Doesn’t the Rope-a-dope require hitting back at some point?
Everyone knows that when a gun is involved the thing to do is SURPENTINE…SURPENTINE!
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### Author:  [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/155 "2006-01-05T06:54:48Z")
I know I can kill/injure someone easily with a rock (1/8 to 1 kilo) from a distance of 2-5 meters. I’m pretty sure an 18 year old would be quite capable of doing the same.
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### Author:  [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/156 "2006-01-05T08:40:02Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#):
>
> I know I can kill/injure someone easily with a rock (1/8 to 1 kilo) from a distance of 2-5 meters. I’m pretty sure an 18 year old would be quite capable of doing the same.
But then again, I wouldn’t do such a stupid thing if a cop would end up as a target.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/157 "2006-01-05T10:50:19Z")
Yeticus Rex,
You know what fascinates me the most about this kind of discussion? It’s the simple fact that the people about whom the government of Mexico is so concerned at the moment are the very same people the very same government couldn’t care less about when they’re not either in the US or trying to get into the US.
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### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/158 "2006-01-05T10:58:02Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#):
>
> What’s incomprehensible to many Americans makes sense to many other people in the world.
Not everyone in this thread is an American. Our cops don’t even carry guns, but I still wouldn’t chuck rocks at 'em.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/159 "2006-01-05T11:54:28Z")
Here is some interesting reading for you, CBEscapee.
BTW, what exactly are (a) the penalty for assualting a federal police officer in Mexico and (b) the rules on use of deadly force by federal police officers in Mexico? For (a), of course, I mean the actual law on the matter. If (b) includes responding to an ADW with deadly force and a rock (as I think it most likely is) is included as a deadly weapon, then you certainly owe both Clothahump and the Border Patrol officer an apology. You certainly owe the BP officer an apology for calling him chicken~.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2006, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-now-clothahump/338312/160 "2006-01-05T11:56:54Z")
Forgot the link:
[http://www.escapingjustice.com/march2.htm](http://www.escapingjustice.com/march2.htm)
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