# Happy Patriot Day, Everyone! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091 "2008-09-11T12:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/21 "2008-09-11T15:32:39Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > 1. September 11th wasn’t about America. Well, to the terrorists it was, but that’s exactly what was wrong with them. They thought it was acceptable to murder a huge number of people because they belonged to the “enemy nation”. Does the President think firefighters and police ran into those buildings because _Americans_ were in danger? No, it was because _people_ were in danger. And they didn’t do that selfless deed because they were good Americans but because they were good people. And the terrorists were bad people because they killed _human beings_, not because they killed Americans, and certainly not because they were foreigners. There are, after all, American terrorists who are just as bad. People Day. A day… for people. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/22 "2008-09-11T15:53:58Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I really don’t know if I can quite explain what makes “Patriot Day” so offensive to me, but I’ll give it a shot. > > 1. Patriotism shouldn’t be about a grudge. That’s the kind of “patriotism” I associate with the Balkans, Israel/Palestine, and other bitter, angry, xenophobic corners of the world. Should I love my country more because some bad guys killed a bunch of us? I want to commemorate the good things the United States has done, not the bad things other people have done _to_ us. > > 2. September 11th wasn’t about America. Well, to the terrorists it was, but that’s exactly what was wrong with them. They thought it was acceptable to murder a huge number of people because they belonged to the “enemy nation”. Does the President think firefighters and police ran into those buildings because _Americans_ were in danger? No, it was because _people_ were in danger. And they didn’t do that selfless deed because they were good Americans but because they were good people. And the terrorists were bad people because they killed _human beings_, not because they killed Americans, and certainly not because they were foreigners. There are, after all, American terrorists who are just as bad. > > 3. The terrorists were patriots too. Very well put, **WF Tomba**. This is exactly what I would have said if I had half as much eloquence as you do in your little finger. [QUOTE=NinjaChick] Sure, maybe - it all depends on you define patriotism. If Bob Accountant or Joe Janitor voted in every election, paid his taxes, wrote letters and called his congressional representatives to make his voice heard, did his best to live a decent life, and occasionally took a moment to be grateful that he lived in a country that afforded such protections and opportunities, sure he was. [/QUOTE] So, just because they died in a terrorist attack, you’re gonna assume that Bob Accountant and Joe Janitor were saints and not ripping off their clients or sleeping in the closet on the clock. Call me cynical, but I do believe that the acts of individuals should determine the presence of patriotism and not mass, passive victimhood coupled with blind assumptions about character. Now, honoring the memory of victims, regardless of how they came to be, is not a bad thing and I’m not saying we shouldn’t honor them. But turning this tragedy into an opportunity to endlessly flag-wave only politicizes their deaths and does their collective memory no justice at all. [QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Why do you hate America? [/QUOTE] If you’re not being cute… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/23 "2008-09-11T16:01:09Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > If you’re not being cute… :rolleyes: Wait, so which smiley do I get if I was? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/24 "2008-09-11T16:02:17Z")
Patriot Day Patriot Act I bet there is a tie in. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/25 "2008-09-11T16:05:00Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > People Day. A day… for people. How about **Compassion Day**? What stands out in my mind of that day was the tremendous outflow of compassion among people: strangers clutching each other as tears and fear took hold…people all across the country, whether personally touched or not, feeling the pang of loss and taking a moment to reflect on how precious life is…the bravery of so many compassionately carrying out their duties to save as many as possible at great risk, ultimately, to their own lives… We saw a lot of good in people that day. Maybe that’s what we should honor. Because that’s what should live on and blossom. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/26 "2008-09-11T16:06:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Wait, so which smiley do I get if I was? How about two? 😃 I saw that coming. It had to be you. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/27 "2008-09-11T16:19:28Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > How about **Compassion Day**? What stands out in my mind of that day was the tremendous outflow of compassion among people: strangers clutching each other as tears and fear took hold…people all across the country, whether personally touched or not, feeling the pang of loss and taking a moment to reflect on how precious life is…the bravery of so many compassionately carrying out their duties to save as many as possible at great risk, ultimately, to their own lives… I was thinking of something like Unity Day, although I suspect there already is one. It was the only time in the 12 years I’ve lived here that people genuinely stopped being black, white, Korean, Cuban, or whatever and started being _American_. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/28 "2008-09-11T16:25:16Z")
I agree with Keith Olbermann, who opined that since the Republicans have taken possession of September 11th as their very own campaign tool, to use for terrifying now and future generations of voters, that the day needs to be patented by them and forever more referred to as **September 11** [sub] **TM** [/sub]. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/29 "2008-09-11T16:38:48Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > I don’t think 50 years is long enough…I think (hope) most people (in the US) know what December 7th means, and that was more than 50 years ago… There’s a bit of a discrepancy, though. We call December 7th, 1941 _Pearl Harbor_ or _The attack on Pearl Harbor_. Even if somebody doesn’t know the date, they will probably know the Japanese navy attacked Hawaii, bringing the US into World War II. On the other hand, we call September 11, 2001 _September 11_, _9/11_, etc. We don’t generally refer to it as _The World Trade Center attack_. In other words, the name is intrinsically linked to the date, making it impossible to remember the event without knowing when it happened. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It was the only time in the 12 years I’ve lived here that people genuinely stopped being black, white, Korean, Cuban, or whatever and started being _American_. So you weren’t proud to be an American before then? :rolleyes: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/30 "2008-09-11T16:58:23Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What an idiotic [name for the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080908-2.html). > > On a day called ‘Patriot Day,’ we ought to be able to strike up the band, cheer, and wave the flag, not fly it at half staff. > > Once Bush is history, can we pretty please change the name to ‘Remembrance Day’ or some such? Then there would be **two** holidays that are on different days north and south of the border (Thanksgiving being the other one). I’m sure 99.999% of Americans (and probably a similar percentage of Canadians) wouldn’t care, but I’m just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/31 "2008-09-11T17:00:21Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > So you weren’t proud to be an American before then? :rolleyes: :smack: Where on earth did you get that from? Nothing I said above had anything to do with pride. That said… a) In fact, no, not really, because I wasn’t an American before then. I moved here when I was thirteen, and I didn’t come from a background of privation and dictatorial government, so it wasn’t as if I came to America and found a land of opportunity. On 9/11 I was 19, and I hadn’t really made up my mind about where I wanted to live or what I wanted out of life or… well, anything, really. I’m still not sure if I call myself an American, but I love the country, its people and way of life, and it is definitely _home_. b) I wasn’t talking about my own feelings, anyway; I’m talking about the attitudes of segments of the population toward other segments. Nobody was whining about affirmative action or immigrant labor or gay rights or any of the hundred other things which usually divide us for that one day. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/32 "2008-09-11T17:04:48Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Very well put, **WF Tomba**. This is exactly what I would have said if I had half as much eloquence as you do in your little finger. > > So, just because they died in a terrorist attack, you’re gonna assume that Bob Accountant and Joe Janitor were saints and not ripping off their clients or sleeping in the closet on the clock. Call me cynical, but I do believe that the acts of individuals should determine the presence of patriotism and not mass, passive victimhood coupled with blind assumptions about character. Now, honoring the memory of victims, regardless of how they came to be, is not a bad thing and I’m not saying we shouldn’t honor them. But turning this tragedy into an opportunity to endlessly flag-wave only politicizes their deaths and does their collective memory no justice at all. Oh, no, that’s not at all what I meant to say. I have no doubt that there were plenty of people doing Bad Things who were killed. No one is a hero for being in the wrong damn place at the wrong time, nor are you patriotic because you came into the office ten minutes early. What I meant was yes, they might have been patriotic. I thought that **Brown Eyed Girl** was implying that there was no possibility that a hapless victim could be patriotic, and by extension, that no Joe Shlub who wasn’t wearing some sort of uniform could be patriotic, or at least as patriotic as say, Joe Soldier. I’m sure the victims absolutely spanned from ‘miserable sleazeball’ to ‘model citizen’, so I don’t think that _any_ blanket statement regarding their patriotism can be made. And IMO that makes the whole “Patriot’s Day” stupid: fly the flag at half-mast, have a moment of silence, do whatever you want to remember, but we as a nation should knock it off with the slapping idiotic labels on things. And this is all coming from someone who thinks the whole damn concept of patriotism is stupid (“Whoo! I was…born in a first-world country! America, fuck yeah!”). Either you’re a good citizen who tries to do good things or you’re not - I don’t get the whole “I love you, country!” nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/33 "2008-09-11T17:07:40Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > So you weren’t proud to be an American before then? :rolleyes: :smack: I am. I mean, at least I know I’m free. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/34 "2008-09-11T17:24:05Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > And this is all coming from someone who thinks the whole damn concept of patriotism is stupid (“Whoo! I was…born in a first-world country! America, fuck yeah!”). Either you’re a good citizen who tries to do good things or you’re not - I don’t get the whole “I love you, country!” nonsense. Oh, okay! Well, in that case, carry on. I get what you’re saying now and I’m totally with you. Woohoo! Go, do-gooders! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/35 "2008-09-11T18:17:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If they aren’t making it a federal holiday, why the hell does it need a name at all? Yeah! They went through all the trouble to make an official holiday out of it and couldn’t give us the day off? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/36 "2008-09-11T18:19:24Z")
It (“Patriot Day”) also would be ignoring the fact that not only American nationals died in the attacks, 327 foreign nationals also perished. Argentina: 4 Australia: 11 Bangladesh: 6 Belarus: 1 Belgium: 1 Bermuda: 1 Brazil: 3 Canada: 27 Chile: 2 China: 4 Cote d’Ivoire: 1 Colombia: 17 Democratic Republic of the Congo: 2 Dominican Republic: 1 El Salvador: 1 Ecuador: 3 France: 1 Germany: 11 Ghana: 2 Guyana: 3 Haiti: 2 Honduras: 1 India: 1 Indonesia: 1 Ireland: 6 Israel: 5 Italy: 4 Jamaica: 16 Japan: 26 Jordan: 2 Lebanon: 3 Lithuania: 1 Malaysia: 7 Mexico: 16 Moldova: 1 Netherlands: 1 New Zealand: 2 Nigeria: 1 Panama: 2 Peru: 5 Philippines: 16 Portugal: 3 Poland: 1 Russia: 1 South Africa: 2 South Korea: 28 Spain: 1 Sweden: 1 Taiwan: 1 Ukraine: 1 Uzbekistan: 1 United Kingdom: 67 Venezuela: 1 CMC +fnord! Interesting that this time the “furriners” count, as opposed to the usual “tragically two Americans were killed when something horrible happened in a country that I can’t pronounce which also killed hundreds of other, um, people”. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/37 "2008-09-11T18:20:32Z")
Seven freaking years later and Osama Bin Laden is still out there! Man what a tool our President is. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/38 "2008-09-11T18:24:56Z")
Before I read this thread, I had honestly forgotten that it was even called Patriots’ Day. Now, from this point forward, perhaps we do need a day honoring Tom Brady’s knee injury, but it would likely be mourned by some and celebrated by others. Seriously, do people actually use that name? I’ve never heard regular people call it Patriots’ day, just 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/39 "2008-09-11T18:29:53Z")
I will not dishonor the memory of those who died on 9/11 by associating their remembrance with the mishmash of jingoism, xenophobia, and abandonment of common sense that came to be known as “patriotism” thereafter. I think “9/11” or “September 11th” is fine. It will be a couple of generations before anyone doesn’t immediately know what it means. And when they don’t, won’t that be kind of a good thing in some ways? I’m sure the people who died at Pearl Harbor would be happy to know that some people don’t know all that much about what happened because the Japanese haven’t been a threat for decades. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091/40 "2008-09-11T18:52:23Z")
To riff on Bill Maher, I think we should call it Why They Hate Us Day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/happy-patriot-day-everyone/463091.md?page=3)