# "Hard Labor" - as military punishment **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181 "2006-06-02T18:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/1 "2006-06-02T18:54:16Z")
What does “hard labour” entail as punishment for a criminal conviction in the military? For example, [here’s a stroy about an Army dog-handler](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1149242557864&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News) who received 90 days of hard labor for what he did at the Abu Ghraib prison. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/2 "2006-06-02T20:31:04Z")
I wondered the same thing and looked it up. These days it just means that you have extra stuff to do beyond your normal duties. It’s like working overtime but not getting paid for it. Generally it’s not very pleasent things to do for example you may be cleaning bathrooms or doing yard work but it’s not breaking rocks in the hot sun. The exact nature of the extra duties is at the discretion of your commanding officer so depending on how sympathetic he or she is to you, it might not be that bad at all. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/3 "2006-06-02T21:49:14Z")
I prefer the soviet term: strict regime. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/4 "2006-06-02T22:16:54Z")
That doesn’t really sound right, **hajario** , since I remember there being a fairly light punishment (whose acronym escapes me after 20 years) that we received that amounted to cleaning bathrooms with toothbrushes and the like, and that punishment was the military equivalent of detention. Hard labor is more than that. From [here](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m6052/is_2004_Dec/ai_n12934974): > [@](#): > > Commanders and their JAs have difficulty determining the specific type of hard labor to be performed. Legally permissible hard labor should include rock breaking for purposes of area beautification. (134) It also includes strictly punitive tasks such as repetitively filling and emptying sandbags. (135) A commander can require a Soldier sentenced to hard labor without confinement to move large piles of dirt or heavy rocks for no purpose other than to keep the Soldier working. (136) Similarly, the commander can have the Soldier dig fighting positions, whether done for the sole punitive purpose of having the Soldier fill them back in or for more permanent use in an installation’s dedicated training area. (137) The commander can also increase the arduous nature of the punishment by limiting the resources available to the Soldier, for example, requiring him to dig fence post holes with his issued entrenching tool rather than with a post-hole digger. **Regardless of the task selected, hard labor should never default to those routine extra duty tasks Soldiers perform as a result of nonjudicial punishment.** (Emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/5 "2006-06-03T18:46:28Z")
_That doesn’t really sound right, hajario, since I remember there being a fairly light punishment (whose acronym escapes me after 20 years) that we received that amounted to cleaning bathrooms with toothbrushes and the like, and that punishment was the military equivalent of detention._ As I recall there was article 13, less than a court marshal, and “Company Punishment” which didn’t even go on your “Permanent Record.” I got company punishment once and had to clean attics for two weeks. (Skipped school!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/6 "2006-06-03T20:39:57Z")
Navy brigs, traditionally staffed by Marines, were pretty hardcore in my day. Many were known as “red line” brigs. Red lines were painted on the deck at strategic points: every doorway, in front of watch positions, etc. Prisoners were required to march between all points and stop at all red lines, at attention, and sound off, then wait for permission to proceed. Tasks described in Minor7’s post were typical, along w/ a Marine standing over the prisoner, barking frequent orders and generally harassing them all the time. I was stationed at the Navy Disciplinary Command, Portsmouth, N.H. in the early 60’s. Most prisoners (they were called CMP’s, for Courts Martial Prisoner) there had it fairly easy. Once they were cleared into the general population, which took from one to several months, they lived in squadbays, instead of cells where they had an hour or two of free time each evening and on weekends. They were assigned to a shop, usually under the supervision of a Navy petty officer, or a civilian employee. They put in an 8 hour day, making civilian suits for discharged prisoners, repairing shoes, refurbishing mattresses, doing building maintenance, mess duty, cleaning, etc. There was one squadbay for “trustees”, where they had TV during their limited free time. Trustees could move from point to point unescorted, but w/ a time stamped pass, all others had to be escorted at all times. Most were incarcerated for things like theft, rape, lengthy AWOL, violent fighting (striking an officer or other superior), etc. There were a few in for murder/manslaughter. The Portsmouth facility has been closed for many years, I think CMP’s w/ long sentences are now sent to Leavenworth, KS. or perhaps other federal facilities. The dog handler, w/ a 90 day sentence, will probably serve his time in a local stockade (as the Army calls their jails), which, as I pointed out, is probably much harder time than in a federal facility. ---
**Author:** ![ERIC\_SHEEHAN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/82dd89/32.png) [@ERIC\_SHEEHAN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ERIC_SHEEHAN)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/7 "2015-08-27T17:42:36Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > _That doesn’t really sound right, hajario, since I remember there being a fairly light punishment (whose acronym escapes me after 20 years) that we received that amounted to cleaning bathrooms with toothbrushes and the like, and that punishment was the military equivalent of detention._ > > As I recall there was article 13, less than a court marshal, and “Company Punishment” which didn’t even go on your “Permanent Record.” > I got company punishment once and had to clean attics for two weeks. (Skipped school!) 😃 The only way to get Hard Labor is through a court martial which goes on to your permenant record depanding on the offense. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/8 "2015-08-27T20:28:16Z")
**Moderator Note** Welcome to the SDMB, **ERIC\_SHEEHAN**. Please note that the thread that you are replying to dates back to 2006. Many of the original thread participants might not be around to see or comment on your reply. We tend to refer to old threads that have been raised like this as zombies, so you might get a few zombie jokes as well. Welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-labor-as-military-punishment/359181/9 "2015-08-27T20:48:26Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > We tend to refer to old threads that have been raised like this as zombies, so you might get a few zombie jokes as well. Well, if **A.R. Cane** comes back…