# Hard or Soft Shells are equally valid for Tacos, Fuck your "Only soft shells are Authentic" bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249 "2022-09-26T10:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/1 "2022-09-26T10:49:43Z")
Because guess what, hard shell tacos are also authentic to Mexican cuisine starting around the 1800s. Don’t fucking wander into a Twitter Convo I’m having to remind me of the “fact” that “Hard shelled tacos aren’t real Mexican food”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/2 "2022-09-26T10:56:49Z")
I will agree insofar as by “hard shell” you mean a corn tortilla stuffed with meat, folded and deep-fried until crispy, then garnished with cheese and veggies, San Diego style. [![](https://robertostacoshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Robertos_TwoTacos_COMBO-1170x658.jpg) ](https://robertostacoshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Robertos_TwoTacos_COMBO-1170x658.jpg) Preformed packaged hard taco shells are completely inadequate, as they break far too easily just from trying to fill them and you’re lucky if they don’t collapse into a mess on your plate after one or two bites. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/3 "2022-09-26T12:20:37Z")
It was so freeing when I realized I didn’t give a wet fart about the elitist “authentic” food description, and only really cared about whether it was delicious. The fun of culture is that it’s alive and changes, and whatever people are making is authentically part of their culture. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/4 "2022-09-26T12:25:13Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Because guess what, hard shell tacos are also authentic to Mexican cuisine starting around the 1800s. Is this true? I thought the story was that hard shell tacos were an innovation created by a family-owned Mexican restaurant called Mitla Cafe which opened in 1937 in California. Maybe they didn’t actually invent the hard-shell taco, just brought the idea to the states. Then the future founder of Taco Ball, at the time (1950s by then) a young man whose family owned a hamburger stand across the street, got friendly with the family who owned Mitla Cafe, learned their process for creating hard taco shells, figured out how to mass-produce them, and Taco Bell was born. > **[How Taco Bell 'stole' the taco](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210630-how-taco-bell-stole-the-taco)** > > Despite Taco Bell's international fame, Mitla Cafe has a place in the history of Mexican American cuisine as the first eatery to serve hard-shell tacos in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/5 "2022-09-26T12:27:03Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Don’t fucking wander into a Twitter Convo I’m having to remind me of the “fact” that “Hard shelled tacos aren’t real Mexican food”. The guy who pompously declared that is probably a northern European. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/6 "2022-09-26T13:14:26Z")
I second the OP’s contempt, and extend it to all those restaurant reviewers who say things like “I’m from California/Texas/New Mexico, and I _know_ about authentic Mexican food.” Screw authenticity. Is it good? That’s what counts. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/7 "2022-09-26T13:20:05Z")
The first written mention of a taco or recipe was an 1890 LA Times article. The taco was fried and therefore crunchy. The article described a taco that was deep-fried after all the ingredients were assembled in the tortilla, similar to the way Jack in the Box makes them. So, the earliest archival info about tacos has them crunchy and is from the US. Anything else is legend and speculation. We know it came from Mexico, but no idea who invented, who started to fry them, and so on. It does seem like the idea that only soft tacos are “authentic” is bullshit though. > [@solost](#): > > Is this true? I thought the story was that hard shell tacos were an innovation created by a family-owned Mexican restaurant called Mitla Cafe which opened in 1937 in California. See this. > **[An Oral History of Hard-Shell Tacos](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/an-oral-history-of-hard-shell-tacos)** > > In the U.S., it’s impossible to bite into the crunchy goodness of a hard shell taco without thinking of Taco Bell: The combination of a... ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/8 "2022-09-26T13:22:30Z")
It’s only 6:22 a.m. here, but damn, now I want a taco (or two) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/9 "2022-09-26T13:22:56Z")
I always ask what real Mexican food is in arguments like that. Is it stuff like Tacos al Pastor, which is a Mexican adaptation of the shawarma that Lebanese immigrants to Mexico brought with them? Is it the Tex-Mex favorite fajitas, which is a grilled meat dish that started among Mexican/Mexican-American ranch hands and their families in South Texas? Is chili authentic, since it derives from a stew that the original Canary Islander immigrants to San Antonio cooked back in the 1700s before Mexico was a thing? Is it stuff like chile con queso? Crunchy taco shells? I say all of them are Mexican, and they’re all something else as well. Those descriptors don’t have to be exclusive. Authenticity in food is such a stupid concept. Are the Vietnamese crawfish that sprung up in Southwest Houston Vietnamese, Texan or Cajun? Why can’t they be authentically all three? What about chicken fried steak? Is it just a variant of Germanic schnitzel, or is it a unique Texas dish? Who’s to say it’s inauthentic? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/10 "2022-09-26T13:35:12Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I thought the story was that hard shell tacos were an innovation created by a family-owned Mexican restaurant called Mitla Cafe which opened in 1937 in California. Maybe they didn’t actually invent the hard-shell taco, just brought the idea to the states. Ashley’s of El Paso was serving hard shell tacos a few years before that. [https://whatsuppub.com/arts\_culture/books/article\_febfef9a-d859-11e2-87f6-0019bb30f31a.html](https://whatsuppub.com/arts_culture/books/article_febfef9a-d859-11e2-87f6-0019bb30f31a.html) > [George] Ashley was a railroad engineer by training who found himself out of a job in 1929, as the Great Depression gripped Texas. He opened a dairy store the following year, but wanted to serve Mexican food, partly because he and his family had long enjoyed it but also because Ashley thought Americans preferred a cleaner environment than the one offered at a typical El Paso Mexican restaurant or across the border in Ciudad Juarez. In 1932, Ashley’s incorporated Mexican meals onto their menu. > By 1935, Ashley’s gave up selling dairy products; the following year, they expanded with a new dining hall. 15 years before the first patent issued for a taco fryer, George fashioned one capable of cooking 600 shells per hour, allowing George to sell tacos in even larger quantities than before and much faster than any competitors. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/11 "2022-09-26T13:36:12Z")
There are too many variations to proclaim one taco more authentic than another but I have no qualms about calling hard shell tacos “American Style” since their ubiquity almost completely stops south of the border. That said, the hard shell taco is rather un-American in its non-portability and the additional difficulty in preparation and eating compared to the soft shell version. Any attempts to make it easier to prepare (preformed and boxed) inevitably make it an inferior dish. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/12 "2022-09-26T14:00:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I say all of them are Mexican, and they’re all something else as well. Those descriptors don’t have to be exclusive. We have a neologism that works - fusion cuisine. A lot of what Americans call “Mexican food” won’t be found in Mexico but still has roots there, sometimes dating back centuries. They call it “Tex-Mex” or “Cali-Mex” or whatever for a reason. So, yeah, the hard shell thing isn’t something you’ll readily find in Mexico. It doesn’t make it ‘wrong’ but it does mean it has as much basis in American cooking as Mexican but many of us don’t want to admit that, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/13 "2022-09-26T14:07:57Z")
From what I understand, the American hard taco has the shells fried separately. You definitely still had fried tacos before, but they were fried with the ingredients included. As for whether something is authentic? Yeah, I care. Not because I look down on the stuff that isn’t. Most of the food I eat very much isn’t authentic. But I still like the idea of separating out the stuff that’s been heavily Americanized to the stuff that people in a country tend to actually eat. When I got to try food actually made by a Mexican immigrant, it was different than the Texmex and Americanized versions I was used to. And that was nice. I still am holding out for authentic pho, as I didn’t like the one that came in a kit I bought, likely because I didn’t know how to make it correctly, and the corners they cut to make it easier for us westerners to prepare. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/14 "2022-09-26T14:08:53Z")
My mom made hard shell tacos with ground beef, bland cheese, iceberg lettuce, and mild taco sauce. They’d crumble to pieces with your first bite. Bleeech. I thought I didn’t like tacos, then soft tacos became a thing. Mmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/15 "2022-09-26T14:12:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I still am holding out for authentic pho There’s a Vietnamese restaurant in Pittsburgh that started out as a tiny 4 table place run by a Vietnamese refugee who lost an arm in the war. He brought his relatives over one at a time to work in the restaurant, eventually moving the business to a bigger spot and still always full. Best Pho I’ve ever eaten. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/16 "2022-09-26T14:20:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My mom made hard shell tacos with ground beef, bland cheese, iceberg lettuce, and mild taco sauce. They’d crumble to pieces with your first bite. Bleeech. One trick my mom always did was to bake the tacos with meat and cheese in the shell. That would make the bottom soft, so they didn’t fall apart. Also, she seasoned the ground beef. I always loved her taco beef. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/17 "2022-09-26T14:20:49Z")
I didn’t even realize there were ‘kits’ for pho. There are so many Vietnamese places in Houston (one of the primary spots that refugees ended up after the war) that you can easily get good fresh pho. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/18 "2022-09-26T14:24:19Z")
Hard shell tacos are an invention of the laundry detergent industry. If you want crunch, get some fucking nachos. (This is not a statement about authenticity.) Tacos become big in Norway when I was a kid. It started out with exclusively the hard shell kind. Now it’s also fajitas, burritos, soft tacos etc. and frequent “Taco Friday” sales. (Yes, in Norway Friday is taco day, not Tuesday.) And when making tacos at home it’s always an assemble-your-own situation. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/19 "2022-09-26T14:28:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s only 6:22 a.m. here, but damn, now I want a taco (or two) I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. My first experience with tacos was at a college cafeteria in Baltimore, when I was in high school. They were crunchy corn shells. To this day, that has always been the right and proper way to eat a taco. I was once served tacos that were in a soft CORN tortilla - which was, I admit, a bit strange; only place I’ve ever seen that done. A flour tortilla holds meat, toppings etc. A crunchy corn tortilla does all that - and tastes good. Corn tortillas are also [healthier](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/corn-vs-flour-tortilla)! Frankly, NEITHER one does that good a job of containing the taco-y goodness inside. This is why we always have them on plates, with a fork to help deal with the fallout. Easy decision - if not one shared by my household. When we have tacos at home, I have to buy a big package of flour tortillas for everyone else. This of course means I get all the tasty crunchy shells to myself. Since the American concept of a taco doubtless bears little resemblance to any traditional Mexican food anyway, I’m not going to get too brokenhearted about whether a hard shell version is less “authentic”. And “authentic” ain’t all that, if it’s not what you’re used to. We had several Chinese students stay with us over the summers, a while back, and each time took them to our very nice Chinese restaurant so they could see what us 'Merkins thought Chinese food was like. There was not a lot on the menu that these kids recognized - though the staff had fun with our guests. And I suspect there’s a lot of traditional Chinese food that we would not like. Don’t go climbing any cliffs for soup ingredients for me, thanks (and what the HELL is with chicken feet: rubbery, fried and coated in sauce; you’re supposed to gnaw off the coating but I’m not sure there’s anything actually edible in the feet beyond making them into soup). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/20 "2022-09-26T14:36:09Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I didn’t even realize there were ‘kits’ for pho. There are so many Vietnamese places in Houston (one of the primary spots that refugees ended up after the war) that you can easily get good fresh pho. ⁢ Neither did I until I was looking for instant soups and saw the kit. I assumed it was also an instant soup (and was expecting it to be as authentic as instant ramen). But it was a kit that you had to add other ingredients to. You had to brown your own onions and add your own beef stock and beef, as well as add your own fresh cilantro. It also doesn’t help that I’m on pretty restrictive low fat diet, making it hard for me to just try out things at a restaurant. As every restaurant seems to put a ton of fat in everything. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249.md?page=2)