# Hard or Soft Shells are equally valid for Tacos, Fuck your "Only soft shells are Authentic" bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249 "2022-09-26T10:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/201 "2024-06-10T21:04:03Z")
Well more specifically when did tortillas start getting called “shells”? It’s almost surely an Americanism, but I wonder who coined it. Maybe it was Bell of Taco Bell fame who popularized the term? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/202 "2024-06-10T21:08:27Z")
Also it’s still odd, because one doesn’t normally eat the shell of something. The only other thing I can think of off hand is “stuffed shells” and that’s just the name of the shape of the pasta in English. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/203 "2024-06-10T21:23:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The meme has a point. Unfried corn tortillas won’t hold the shape we generally associate with a taco shell, and so shouldn’t be designated as shells at all. Which might lead one to conclude that there’s no such thing as a soft taco shell. Then, tacos with “shells” are NOT street tacos. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/204 "2024-06-10T21:37:17Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Well more specifically when did tortillas start getting called “shells”? Here is a patent from 1951 filed by Edward De Gonia which reports to be a description of a utensil used for “frying taco shells”. [https://patents.google.com/patent/US2740349A/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US2740349A/en) Taco Bell was founded in 1962 so it certainly didn’t originate from there. Note that the idea of something crunchy and edible referred to as a “shell” can be seen at least as far back as 1937 in England, when H. I. Rowntree began selling the candy Smarties, which still exist today (though now made by Nestle) and were the inspiration for M&Ms. When first offered in 1937, they were marketed as, “Milk Chocolate in a Crisp Sugar Shell.” So that certainly predated the popularity of crunchy tacos. But really, it’s a bit of a silly question. The word “shell” simply means a hard exterior, and the usage of that word goes back before the 12th century in Middle English. A crunchy taco “shell” is the same as the shell of a turtle; it’s a hard thing on the outside that protects the inside. So it’s not an “Americanism”, it’s absolutely English. > [@Chingon](#): > > The only other thing I can think of off hand is “stuffed shells” and that’s just the name of the shape of the pasta in English. Puff pastry shells have been consumed in France since at least the early 1300s. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Then, tacos with “shells” are NOT street tacos. That seems to contradict the official definition of “shell”. > **[Definition of SHELL](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shell)** > > a hard rigid usually largely calcareous covering or support of an animal; the hard or tough often thin outer covering of an egg (as of a bird or reptile); the covering or outside part of a fruit or seed especially when hard or fibrous… See the full... It’s a bit ironic, the only reason fried tortillas are called “shells” is because they are hard. So once people accept the idea that a fried tortilla is a shell, they call unfried tortillas “soft shells”. It’s an oxymoron though. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/205 "2024-06-10T21:46:41Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > > Then, tacos with “shells” are NOT street tacos. > > That seems to contradict the official definition of “shell”. I was addressing a comment that said (somehow) tacos on unfried tortillas do not qualify as street tacos. Which is ludicrous since I have yet to encounter a hard shelled taco as a “street taco”. I can’t prove that someone somewhere hasn’t called a hard shell taco a street taco, but I can confidently say if you order one there is a 99.9% chance you will be handed a small taco on an unfried corn tortilla. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/206 "2024-06-10T21:46:47Z")
ETA: @Atamasama two posts up. IANA culinary terminology expert, but if we can have “soft-shelled crabs” I’m not sure that “soft-shelled tacos” are any less logical or any more oxymoronic. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/207 "2024-06-10T21:48:13Z")
Imagine my confusion when a customer at the store asked me where the “burrito shells” were. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/208 "2024-06-10T21:48:14Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I was addressing a comment that said (somehow) tacos on unfried tortillas do not qualify as street tacos. Sorry about the ambiguity of my post; I was agreeing with you. Street tacos are invariably on soft tortillas (in my experience at least) so they don’t have shells. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > IANA culinary terminology expert, but if we can have “soft-shelled crabs” I’m not sure that “soft-shelled tacos” are any less logical or any more oxymoronic. Correct, in the sense that “soft-shell crab” **is** illogical and oxymoronic. A soft-shell crab is a crab that has recently molted, and you eat it before its exterior has an opportunity to harden into a shell. It would be more accurate to call it a “non-shell crab” but that’s not what they call them. 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/209 "2024-06-10T21:49:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Imagine my confusion when a customer at the store asked me where the “burrito shells” were. I’d have directed them to the manicotti. :evil grin: ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/210 "2024-06-10T21:52:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’d have directed them to the manicotti. That’s fucking genius. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/211 "2024-06-10T21:58:47Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Sorry about the ambiguity of my post; I was agreeing with you. Sorry if I sound cranky. For non-diabetic reasons I’ve been wearing a continuous glucose monitor and have just recently discovered that corn tortillas (fried or not) are glycemic as fuck. They spike like a Snickers bar. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/212 "2024-06-10T22:01:14Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Sorry if I sound cranky. It’s the Pit, you should apologize if you **didn’t**. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/213 "2024-06-11T08:19:33Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Well more specifically when did tortillas start getting called “shells”? Taco shells have been called “taco shells” as far back as I can remember. It always meant a corn tortilla folded into a trough and fried. When the same basic food, on an unfried tortilla, became popular, we needed a way to describe it. What else would you call it except a “soft shell taco”? It’s rather like “accoustic guitar”; we didn’t need a special term for it as long as there was only one option. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/214 "2024-06-11T14:16:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m surprised hamburger didn’t enter that taxonomy. We had salmon burgers for dinner last night. I’m always just a tiny bit uncomfortable calling them burgers, but, hey, turkey burgers are a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/215 "2024-06-11T14:36:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We had salmon burgers for dinner last night. I’m always just a tiny bit uncomfortable calling them burgers, but, hey, turkey burgers are a thing. Was the salmon ground? Because if it’s not ground meat, it’s not a hamburger - it’s just a hot meat sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/216 "2024-06-11T14:52:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Was the salmon ground? Yes. I’ve befriended the fish lady at the supermarket. They sell ground salmon patties as a way to use up about to expire salmon fillets. If I pick out some nice salmon fillets she will grind them and label them as salmon burgers for me. In exchange I bring her dog toys we have in excess from a bark box subscription. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/217 "2024-06-11T15:17:06Z")
If it’s made with ground meat, I’m fine calling it a burger. When it’s made with whole muscle it makes me want to just call it a sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/218 "2024-06-11T15:24:33Z")
For almost as long as I can remember, hard shell was the default when ordering at Taco Bell. At some point the soft tortilla option became a thing and now I have be careful to specify “crunchy” when ordering. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/219 "2024-06-11T15:31:22Z")
There was a minor Twitter fracas a few weeks ago upon the discovery of antipodean burger ontology. > This is a chicken burger in Australia because it’s served on a burger bun vs the American distinction being patty based. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249/220 "2024-06-11T15:40:21Z")
I didn’t see that particular brouhaha, but I have noticed that elsewhere burgers don’t make the ground meat distinction. The origins of burgers was basically putting a Hamburg steak or frikadelle on a bun, which is a ground meat patty or meatball. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-or-soft-shells-are-equally-valid-for-tacos-fuck-your-only-soft-shells-are-authentic-bullshit/972249.md?page=12)