# Hard Sci- Fi books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113 "2007-04-21T22:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/1 "2007-04-21T22:11:21Z")
I’m moving into my slow time at work which means more time for reading. What are your suggestions for recent “hard” sci-fi books to read? Hopefully books of a substantial length with lots of science! [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=358939&highlight=hard) is the thread I started last year on the same topic. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/2 "2007-04-21T22:17:39Z")
Stephen Baxter is pretty hard as far as sci-fi goes, to my taste . Can I recommend Iain M. Banks though? He’s got too much empathy for his characters (quite a few of whom are machines) to be really _hard_, but well worth reading in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/3 "2007-04-21T22:27:46Z")
Vernor Vinge, who wrote one of the first, if not the first, SF short stories about the Internet (I believe the first, and I believe it predated the Internet) writes excellent hard SF. Try his award winning novel “A Light Upon The Deep” which postulates with an interstellar internet. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/4 "2007-04-21T23:34:41Z")
Robert Metzger and Wil McCarthy are two writers who came on the scene this decade who write extremely hard, science-oriented sf. ---
**Author:** ![krisolov](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krisolov/32/3724_2.png) [@krisolov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krisolov)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/5 "2007-04-21T23:36:25Z")
I’m reading Gridlinked by Neal Asher now. Very good stuff, definitely on a par with Iain Banks. Speaking of, I read The Algebraist by Iain Banks recently. About an alien civilization that exists in gas giants, humanity’s interactions with them, and a mystery. Really truly great stuff. Very highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/6 "2007-04-21T23:37:13Z")
Check out Ben Bova’s [Grand Tour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour_%28novel_series%29) series, and anything by [Allen Steele.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Steele) ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/7 "2007-04-21T23:59:21Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Vernor Vinge, who wrote one of the first, if not the first, SF short stories about the Internet (I believe the first, and I believe it predated the Internet) writes excellent hard SF. Try his award winning novel “A Light Upon The Deep” which postulates with an interstellar internet. [/QUOTE] I believe it’s _A Fire Upon the Deep_. And yes, it’s really good. I’d also suggest _Marooned in Realtime_, which is truly mind-blowing. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/8 "2007-04-22T00:02:00Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Vernor Vinge, who wrote one of the first, if not the first, SF short stories about the Internet (I believe the first, and I believe it predated the Internet) writes excellent hard SF. Try his award winning novel “A Light Upon The Deep” which postulates with an interstellar internet. [/QUOTE] That’s “A **Fire** Upon the Deep”. Good book. “A Deepness in the Sky” is quite good too. I like his “Zones of Thought” universe (embodied in the above books). The core of the galaxy consists of the _unthinking depths_ where sentience cannot exist. In the next shell outside the core, is the _Slow Zone_ where nothing can exceed lightspeed and computers cannot achieve true sentience (BTW, Earth is stuck here). Next, in the _Beyond_, communications exceed lightspeed, as does space travel, and computers can achieve sentience. A galaxy-wide (for the Beyond) internet, with instant communications, is available for a small fee. Finally, outside the _Beyond_ is the _Transcendence_, where sentient beings may attain godlike powers and insights, and either leave the universe, or try to destroy it, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/9 "2007-04-22T00:11:22Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] I believe it’s _A Fire Upon the Deep_. And yes, it’s really good. I’d also suggest _Marooned in Realtime_, which is truly mind-blowing. [/QUOTE] It is indeed _A Fire Upon the Deep_. _A Deepness in the Sky_ is set in the same universe. One of the items/abilities in that book fascinates me…and is possibly the scariest thing I’ve ever read. The most recent novel of his that I’ve read is _Rainbows End_, which is set on future Earth. Almost nobody in that future uses computers the way we do, instead most people wear their connections and computers. John Varley writes some hard SF too, though I think that he hasn’t had a book out in a year or so. _Red Lightning_ was his most recent book that I know of, and it came out a couple of years ago. L. Ron Hubbard’s Writers of the Future series generally has some good hard SF in its collections, as well as some well done fantasy. It’s a story and illustration contest, with the winners and runners-up published. Sometimes I find a story that’s not entirely to my liking in a collection, but on the most part, I feel that the anthologies are a very good buy. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/10 "2007-04-22T04:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] That’s “A **Fire** Upon the Deep”. Good book. “A Deepness in the Sky” is quite good too. I like his “Zones of Thought” universe (embodied in the above books). The core of the galaxy consists of the _unthinking depths_ where sentience cannot exist. In the next shell outside the core, is the _Slow Zone_ where nothing can exceed lightspeed and computers cannot achieve true sentience (BTW, Earth is stuck here). Next, in the _Beyond_, communications exceed lightspeed, as does space travel, and computers can achieve sentience. A galaxy-wide (for the Beyond) internet, with instant communications, is available for a small fee. Finally, outside the _Beyond_ is the _Transcendence_, where sentient beings may attain godlike powers and insights, and either leave the universe, or try to destroy it, or both. [/QUOTE] All this based on the premise that the laws of physics behave differently depending upon how far away from galactic center you are. When I got my head around that, is about when my brain exploded. Good stuff. 😃 It’s mentioned by one of the talking ferns that the neighbor galaxies have their own Zones of Thought. (Was it based on gravity? Or some other effect of proximity to supermassive black holes?) I’d love to see some serious website about this setting. Maybe a MMORPG. Probably the only fanfic I’ll ever read will be set in the Zones of Thought. Back to the OP, I don’t have anything to contribute, I tend to go back and re-read old Niven and Asimov, though I am currently looking for new material and will be watching this thread with much interest. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/11 "2007-04-22T04:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] “A **Fire** Upon the Deep”. Good book. “A Deepness in the Sky” is quite good too. [/QUOTE] I just finished “Rainbows End” Set in San Diego around 2025, it’s definitely worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/12 "2007-04-22T14:37:01Z")
I picked [this](http://www.amazon.com/Project-MARS-Wernher-von-Braun/dp/0973820330) up a few weeks ago but haven’t had a chance to read it yet. Recently published though not recently written. It has 60 pages of technical notes at the end. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/13 "2007-04-22T14:50:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Check out Ben Bova’s [Grand Tour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour_%28novel_series%29) series, and anything by [Allen Steele.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Steele) [/QUOTE] I disagree on “anything by Allen Steele.” While most of his stuff (_Orbital Decay_ and related works and so on) probably would qualify as hard sci-fi, I think that the _Coyote_ series doesn’t qualify. His world-building stinks in the Coyote series and it’s all just a place to hang three books (almost all of which is short stories and novellas previously published in _Asimov’s_) worth of social commentary. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/14 "2007-04-22T15:08:56Z")
I’m a big fan of Charles Sheffield. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/15 "2007-04-22T15:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Robert Metzger and Wil McCarthy [/QUOTE] McCarthy’s “the Fall of Sirius” and “Collapsium” were both excellent, hard SF reads. I need to get a copy of Metzger’s [Cusp](http://www.amazon.com/Cusp-Robert-Metzger/dp/0441013015/ref=sr_1_1/002-3671476-4140842?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177254787&sr=1-1). [Susan R. Matthews](http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/susan-r-matthews/) Jurisdiction series leans towards the Military SF axis a bit more than towards hard SF, but what I’ve read of it is still plenty hard. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/16 "2007-04-22T15:43:11Z")
Peter Watts writes fantastic, and very dark, hard science fiction. His latest novel, Blindsight, is up for a Hugo - and he’s released it under a Creative Commons license on his website, along with two earlier novels and a bunch of short stories. [Watts Backlist](http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts.htm) And of course, you can also buy dead-tree versions of his stuff on Amazon if you want. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/17 "2007-04-22T16:19:24Z")
FWIW, this is the first time I’ve heard somebody say something about Allen Steele’s “Coyote” books that wasn’t praise. One of these days I’ll get around to reading them. I’m currently re-reading John Cramer’s book _Einstein’s Bridge_. It’s good. I’ve heard his previous book, _Twistor_, is even better. Evidently, Cramer is a well-known physicist who came up with the transactional interpretation of QM – which I read about in Robert Sawyer’s book _Flashforward_ and had no idea that the guy he was talking about was the author of the fascinating _Einstein’s Bridge_ book I’d read a couple years before. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/18 "2007-04-22T16:34:18Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] FWIW, this is the first time I’ve heard somebody say something about Allen Steele’s “Coyote” books that wasn’t praise. [/QUOTE] Well, here’s a second one. They weren’t great. As stories they weren’t terrible. But nothing exceptional at all. As hard SF, they sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/19 "2007-04-22T17:42:37Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Excellent] Peter Watts writes fantastic, and very dark, hard science fiction. His latest novel, Blindsight, is up for a Hugo - and he’s released it under a Creative Commons license on his website, along with two earlier novels and a bunch of short stories. [Watts Backlist](http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts.htm) And of course, you can also buy dead-tree versions of his stuff on Amazon if you want. [/QUOTE] I came in to mention Peter Watts, but **Mr. Excellent** beat me to it. 🙂 His books tend to be a little dark, but are consistently pretty interesting. _Blindsight_ is a first contact novel, with a bit of a twist. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113/20 "2007-04-22T18:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Vernor Vinge, who wrote one of the first, if not the first, SF short stories about the Internet (I believe the first, and I believe it predated the Internet) writes excellent hard SF. Try his award winning novel “A Light Upon The Deep” which postulates with an interstellar internet. [/QUOTE] “A Logic Named Joe,” by Murray Leinster (1946) is sometimes cited as the first SF prediction of the Internet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/401113.md?page=2)