# Hard Sci-fi Books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929 "2011-04-27T18:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dflower/32/3270_2.png) [@dflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dflower)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/1 "2011-04-27T18:49:19Z")
Need some help from Sci-fi book fans. I just read The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle. Liked it very much. Seems to be a very early sci-fi book. Is it? It was out in 1957. What other similar books, called hard sci-fi, if I understand it, would you recommend? Not into fantasy as much. Much prefer books based on real science. I thank you ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/2 "2011-04-27T19:17:44Z")
_The Mote in God’s Eye_ by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle is a fine hard-science sf novel set about a thousand years in the future, about humanity’s first contact with sentient aliens. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/3 "2011-04-27T19:22:31Z")
The works of Larry Niven and Robert Forward are highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/4 "2011-04-27T19:32:38Z")
Anything by Arthur C Clarke or Iain M Banks. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/5 "2011-04-27T19:33:57Z")
Greg Egan does some good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/6 "2011-04-27T19:39:38Z")
_Mission of Gravity_ by Hal clement is a classic of hard SF. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/7 "2011-04-27T20:11:09Z")
[Here is a thread on hard sci-fi I started a few years ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417716) Some great suggestions on here. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/8 "2011-04-27T21:31:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > _Mission of Gravity_ by Hal clement is a classic of hard SF. As is most of what Clement wrote - hard SF and very good. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/9 "2011-04-27T21:47:00Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > As is most of what Clement wrote - hard SF and very good. Agreed; I like his statement on what hard sf should look like: > [@](#): > > “Writing a science fiction story is fun, not work. … the fun… lies in treating the whole thing as a game. … the rules must be quite simple. They are; for the reader of a science-fiction story, they consist of finding as many as possible of the author’s statements or implications which conflict with the facts as science currently understands them. For the author, the rule is to make as few such slips as he possibly can … Certain exceptions are made [e.g., to allow travel faster than the speed of light], but fair play demands that all such matters be mentioned as early as possible in the story…” ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/10 "2011-04-27T22:52:56Z")
[_Dragon’s Egg_ by Forward](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg) comes to mind immediately, though I haven’t read it myself yet. Then there’s [The Forever War](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheForeverWar) by Joe Haldeman, which is hard-ish. Actually, the TV tropes article [Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness) might be of some help, though you’d have to sort through entries including film, television, etc, not just written works. ---
**Author:** ![Canyon\_Surfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Canyon\_Surfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canyon_Surfer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/11 "2011-04-27T23:18:02Z")
I’ve read Dragon’s Egg and recommend it very highly. If you can find it [A for Andromeda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_for_Andromeda) by Fred Hoyle is a bit like an early Contact (Carl Sagan). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/12 "2011-04-27T23:25:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > _Mission of Gravity_ by Hal clement is a classic of hard SF. Hal invented the hard SF genre; the only other person with a serious claim to the title was Jules Verne, and few followed in his footsteps until steampunk. Hal’s first story, “Proof,” started the trend. Instead of making up alien worlds, Hal based them on what was known to scientists of his time. He wrote by finding some sort of interesting idea for a world from actual science and telling a story factoring it in. **Mission of Gravity** is all about the science of a world he created where the gravity varied depending on where you were. It’s all about how the gravity gradients affect things. The characters are so-so (Barlennan, the alien commander, stands out) and the story is pretty tame, but the science makes the book a classic. Hal calculated everything as accurately as he could, given the tools of the time (years later, they used a computer to find errors in his calculations, but they were pretty damn good for a slide rule and pencil). Before Hal, there was no interest in hard SF. The science in the genre was just a method of telling the story. John W. Campbell started insisting that the science did not out-and-out contradict known fact (as he published E. E. “Doc” Smith, who refused to accept relativity in his stories) and Hal was taking that as far as it could go. The issue today is that some people don’t understand that hard SF is not the only form of SF, nor is the source of the best in the genre. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/13 "2011-04-27T23:57:46Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Agreed; I like his statement on what hard sf should look like… I would add an additional element: that some essential element of the story must _turn_ on an identifiable scientific idea. That is, it’s not sufficient for a story to simply be plausibly _set_ in the future/outer space/with aliens/whatever; something should _happen_ which depends on real or consistently-extrapolated science. For example, I really like some of Egan’s short stories that take place in the present day (or a few years ago, or from now), on Earth (or an Earth very much like ours), and among humans. A couple may not even be initially recognizable as “science fiction”–but the science turns out to be the fulcrum of everything that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/14 "2011-04-28T00:07:53Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I would add an additional element: that some essential element of the story must _turn_ on an identifiable scientific idea. That is, it’s not sufficient for a story to simply be plausibly _set_ in the future/outer space/with aliens/whatever; something should _happen_ which depends on real or consistently-extrapolated science. > > For example, I really like some of Egan’s short stories that take place in the present day (or a few years ago, or from now), on Earth (or an Earth very much like ours), and among humans. A couple may not even be initially recognizable as “science fiction”–but the science turns out to be the fulcrum of everything that happens. Egan is a master of making the science of the story really matter to the person in the story, too. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/15 "2011-04-28T00:28:01Z")
I enjoy [Peter F. Hamilton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F._Hamilton)’s stuff. Quite hard SF. Many interesting themes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/16 "2011-04-28T00:42:27Z")
Kim Stanley Robinson’s **Red Mars** is decently hard science fiction: a tremendous amount of it consists of descriptions of the Arean landscape and geological history, and all the McGuffins in it come across as scientifically plausible. (The series continues fairly hard, but eventually cheap fusion and universal immortality destroy the possibility of a coherent narrative IMO). My absolute favorite hard SF is Robert Wilson’s **Spin**. Excellent fiction, what looked to me like very good science. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/17 "2011-04-28T00:59:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Kim Stanley Robinson’s **Red Mars** is decently hard science fiction: a tremendous amount of it consists of descriptions of the Arean landscape and geological history, and all the McGuffins in it come across as scientifically plausible. (The series continues fairly hard, but eventually cheap fusion and universal immortality destroy the possibility of a coherent narrative IMO). There’s one basic thermodynamics error in “Red Mars” but it’s a pretty solid book and Robinson is definitely trying to make it as hard as possible. Michael Swanwick’s “Bones of the Earth” is another good one - some great paleontology (and some time travel, I’ll admit). ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/18 "2011-04-28T01:00:57Z")
**Rainbows End** of Vernor Vinge. For me, it is the cleverest prediction of the near future I have found so far. A world dominated by presential and ubiquous Internet, allied to virtual reality. For instance, people goes to a park and the name of the species of trees are proyected in theirs contact lenses! Or talk to a foreigner, and the translation appears simultaneously writen on the contact lenses, and so the captions can be read like in movies! A must read. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/19 "2011-04-28T13:53:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Hal invented the hard SF genre; the only other person with a serious claim to the title was Jules Verne, and few followed in his footsteps until steampunk. > > Hal’s first story, “Proof,” started the trend. Instead of making up alien worlds, Hal based them on what was known to scientists of his time. He wrote by finding some sort of interesting idea for a world from actual science and telling a story factoring it in. > > **Mission of Gravity** is all about the science of a world he created where the gravity varied depending on where you were. It’s all about how the gravity gradients affect things. The characters are so-so (Barlennan, the alien commander, stands out) and the story is pretty tame, but the science makes the book a classic. Hal calculated everything as accurately as he could, given the tools of the time (years later, they used a computer to find errors in his calculations, but they were pretty damn good for a slide rule and pencil). > > Before Hal, there was no interest in hard SF. The science in the genre was just a method of telling the story. John W. Campbell started insisting that the science did not out-and-out contradict known fact (as he published E. E. “Doc” Smith, who refused to accept relativity in his stories) and Hal was taking that as far as it could go. > > The issue today is that some people don’t understand that hard SF is not the only form of SF, nor is the source of the best in the genre. I dunno about the last bit - hard SF is a distinct (and pretty small) minority of all SF. Certainly it has rabid fans, but no moreso than other more popular sub-genres. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929/20 "2011-04-28T14:04:34Z")
I think if you look at current SF, the two main threads are hard sf and cyberpunk-influenced space opera. About the only writer working in soft SF these days is Kit Reed (whose **Thinner Than Thou** and **Enclave** as two of the three best SF books of this century). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hard-sci-fi-books/579929.md?page=2)