# Hardesty, Oklahoma, wretched hive of scum and villainy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997 "2007-05-14T04:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/21 "2007-05-14T14:41:37Z")
One of the background sites identified by Google was called [ShelleyTheRepublican](http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/2006/08/26/athiest-troublemakers-not-ok-in-ok.aspx). Can anyone tell me if they’re serious (and horrifying) or a brilliant, Onion-esqe parody of rightwing, fundamentalist blogs? I’m sort of leaning towards the latter ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/22 "2007-05-14T14:43:10Z")
The family was on _20/20_ the other night. That’s why ABC has it. But “ostracized, abused, and framed by her school” is a ridiculous summary. She chose to “ostracize” herself, simply because she didn’t want to pray. She felt out of place when the other girls on her basketball team came together in prayer. They invited her to join, but she chose not to. Nothing is wrong with her chosing not to, but it isn’t possible for her to both participate and not participate. Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? There was never a problem when she was on the boys football team. (Yes, the boys team. She was, I think, a tight end.) They didn’t pray, and she fit right in, getting plenty of play time. It was her father who chose to take her out of school and homeschool her himself. He was a hippy-aged crusader who seemed to enjoy basking in the controversy while his daughter mouthed his slogans. And certainly, no one abused her. Never a hand was laid on her. She recounted a couple of instances of teasing, but I mean shit, what kid can’t? By and large, she was accepted by the students and in fact a bit revered for her athletic prowess. And framed? She stole another girl’s fucking shoes, which she claimed on the show that she “borrowed” with the intention of returning them. Why does that translate into framed? The one who should be pitted is her clueless father, who is using her for his own causes. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/23 "2007-05-14T14:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Does anyone have any clue why this has stayed below the radar so long? [/QUOTE] I have a vague memory of some evening news show highlighting an atheist family, and the oppression they faced in their southern town. That would have been a good 4 or 5 years ago. I wonder if it is the same family, although my memory of the oldest girl is that she was blonde. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/24 "2007-05-14T15:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=ABC News] [A year later, Nicole was allowed back on the team. This time, when the prayer started, she stayed outside the circle. “I just stood outside of it and said the Pledge of Allegiance … Without the ‘under God.’” The next school day, Nicole was suspended – this time, she was accused of threatening to kill a team member. But according to Nicole, she never said that.]([The Black Sheep of Hardesty - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3164811&page=3)) [/QUOTE] Rememer: Breaking commandments is okay, as long as you’re doing it to hurt someone who doesn’t believe like you. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/25 "2007-05-14T15:21:51Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] She chose to “ostracize” herself, simply because she didn’t want to pray. She felt out of place when the other girls on her basketball team came together in prayer. They invited her to join, but she chose not to. Nothing is wrong with her chosing not to, but it isn’t possible for her to both participate and not participate. Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? [/QUOTE] Sorry, what? What I’m seeing in the news stories referenced in the first couple of posts is this: Team prays -\> Girl elects not to pray -\> Girl gets harrassed and ostracized for not doing so. Where are you seeing ‘Girl elects not to pray and tells the rest of the team they shouldn’t either’? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/26 "2007-05-14T15:32:13Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] She chose to “ostracize” herself, simply because she didn’t want to pray. [/QUOTE] Yep, there’s the problem all right. :dubious: It’s like that in my area too. That’s why I sent my daughters to a non-sectarian private school 30 miles away. The heat my one kid took just for saying that not everything in the bible is literally true pretty much sealed that move. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/27 "2007-05-14T15:41:14Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The family was on _20/20_ the other night. That’s why ABC has it. But “ostracized, abused, and framed by her school” is a ridiculous summary. She chose to “ostracize” herself, simply because she didn’t want to pray. [/quote] Kind of like how the Jews “chose” to ostracize themselves in Nazi Germany? I’ve never been one to join in any of the pile-ons or flames you occasionally receive on this board, but this is the first time I’ve ever seen you post anything that i think is truly distasteful and bigoted. Blaming the victim is bullshit. > [@](#): > > She felt out of place when the other girls on her basketball team came together in prayer. They invited her to join, but she chose not to. Nothing is wrong with her chosing not to, but it isn’t possible for her to both participate and not participate. Prayer is not part of playing basketball. “Participation” in basketball does not include prayer. Do you think a kid has a right to participate in sports at a public school without being forced to pray? I guess you don’t. > [@](#): > > Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? She didn’t ask them to stop praying, she just didn’t want to be included. > [@](#): > > There was never a problem when she was on the boys football team. (Yes, the boys team. She was, I think, a tight end.) They didn’t pray, and she fit right in, getting plenty of play time. It was her father who chose to take her out of school and homeschool her himself. He was a hippy-aged crusader who seemed to enjoy basking in the controversy while his daughter mouthed his slogans. > > And certainly, no one abused her. Never a hand was laid on her. She recounted a couple of instances of teasing, but I mean shit, what kid can’t? By and large, she was accepted by the students and in fact a bit revered for her athletic prowess. And framed? She stole another girl’s fucking shoes, which she claimed on the show that she “borrowed” with the intention of returning them. Why does that translate into framed? > > The one who should be pitted is her clueless father, who is using her for his own causes. What is her father “clueless” about? Why should he not protect his daughter’s Constitutional rights and shield her from harrassment, false accusations and abuse? Have you read anything other than the ABC story? Did you know that the father was physically assaulted by the principal and then falsely charged with assault himself (he was acquitted in less than three hours). Did you know that the sheriff of the town actively participated in the harrassment of the family. This is from the [civil complaint](http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/smalko3.htm): > [@](#): > > A school board member and her husband, a Texas County Deputy Sheriff are identified and charged in the lawsuit as conspirators who “attempted to hire, coerce, or otherwise convince, for payment of money or other consideration on school property, one Jerry Kelly to inflict personal harm on Plaintiff Chester Smalkowski in retaliation for his religious opinions and in further retaliation for Plaintiff Chester Smalkowski’s attempt to defend his daughter and family against the false and malicious allegations…” > > Another charge focuses on a Deputy Sheriff who ostensibly ordered the submission of falsified policy reports and attempting under false pretext to have Mr. Smalkowski re-arrested. Other allegations listed include: > > ``` > ¶ Attempts to coerce the bail bondsman to withhold bail without charges. > > ¶ Improper meetings and private conferences involving local officials. > > ¶ Efforts to coerce the filing of a "groundless restraining order" against Mr. Smalkowski. > > ¶ Efforts to obtain false statements from students "in order to create a false cause for arrest." > > ¶ Harassment > > ¶ Efforts to coerce the giving of false testimony. > > ``` What exactly is the father’s “cause,” by the way? Is the expectation of equal protection under the law a worthless hippie “cause,” now? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/28 "2007-05-14T15:41:17Z")
[QUOTE=BayleDomon] Sorry, what? What I’m seeing in the news stories referenced in the first couple of posts is this: Team prays -\> Girl elects not to pray -\> Girl gets harrassed and ostracized for not doing so. Where are you seeing ‘Girl elects not to pray and tells the rest of the team they shouldn’t either’? [/QUOTE] I missed the evidence for the “harassment” part. Yes, she claims it, but she and her father seem to be the only ones, and there seems to be zero evidence that she was kicked off the team for her atheism. It seems to be reasonably well established that she was kicked off the first time for stealing someone’s shoes. She seems to have more or less admitted that she did it. Now she denies having threatened someone. Her word is, frankly, a bit questionable - if she was not kicked off because of her atheism before, why should it be done now? Seems like she might be trolling. Or at least seizing on her rather public atheism as an excuse to get over on the system. What is it about atheist fathers who are always [assholes?](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4594537/) ? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/29 "2007-05-14T15:49:56Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] What is it about atheist fathers who are always [assholes?](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4594537/) ? 😃 [/QUOTE] What is it with Christians always feeling like anyone who wants to protect the Establishment Clause is an “asshole?” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/30 "2007-05-14T16:15:32Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The family was on _20/20_ the other night. That’s why ABC has it. But “ostracized, abused, and framed by her school” is a ridiculous summary. She chose to “ostracize” herself, simply because she didn’t want to pray. She felt out of place when the other girls on her basketball team came together in prayer. They invited her to join, but she chose not to. Nothing is wrong with her chosing not to, but it isn’t possible for her to both participate and not participate. Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? There was never a problem when she was on the boys football team. (Yes, the boys team. She was, I think, a tight end.) They didn’t pray, and she fit right in, getting plenty of play time. It was her father who chose to take her out of school and homeschool her himself. He was a hippy-aged crusader who seemed to enjoy basking in the controversy while his daughter mouthed his slogans. And certainly, no one abused her. Never a hand was laid on her. She recounted a couple of instances of teasing, but I mean shit, what kid can’t? By and large, she was accepted by the students and in fact a bit revered for her athletic prowess. And framed? She stole another girl’s fucking shoes, which she claimed on the show that she “borrowed” with the intention of returning them. Why does that translate into framed? The one who should be pitted is her clueless father, who is using her for his own causes. [/QUOTE] He was a hippy aged crusader with a daughter mouthing his slogans. But kids stabding in a circle praying are somehow not mouthing their parents slogans. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/31 "2007-05-14T16:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic to Shodan] What is it with Christians always feeling like anyone who wants to protect the Establishment Clause is an “asshole?” [/QUOTE] Why don’t you ask one if he shows up? Jesus, Dio, you’ve already played the Hitler card. Now we can’t even discuss this because you have pre-shat on it. You should be ashamed for comparing her to Holocaust victims. If you gave a shit about the establishment clause, then you wouldn’t care if the girls wanted to pray together. If she actually had been abused, ostracized, and whatever, I’d be the first in line to defend her. But you’re not even looking at the facts. You’re just looking at that “I Hate Christianity” sign stuck to the end of your nose. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/32 "2007-05-14T16:20:17Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He was a hippy aged crusader with a daughter mouthing his slogans. But kids stabding in a circle praying are somehow not mouthing their parents slogans. [/QUOTE] Who said they weren’t? Can’t you people find, you know, an ACTUAL thing to bitch about? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/33 "2007-05-14T16:46:01Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Who said they weren’t? Can’t you people find, you know, an ACTUAL thing to bitch about? [/QUOTE] Until you explain the implication that she was somehow insisting that the rest of the team not pray, I’m afraid you don’t have a basis for this complaint. Even if **Shodan** is right, and she’s making this up out of whole cloth, I still don’t see where she was attempting to impose her views on the rest of the girls. In case you’re wondering what I’m talking about: > [@Liberal](#): > > Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/34 "2007-05-14T16:46:31Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Why don’t you ask one if he shows up? Jesus, Dio, you’ve already played the Hitler card. Now we can’t even discuss this because you have pre-shat on it. You should be ashamed for comparing her to Holocaust victims. If you gave a shit about the establishment clause, then you wouldn’t care if the girls wanted to pray together. If she actually had been abused, ostracized, and whatever, I’d be the first in line to defend her. But you’re not even looking at the facts. You’re just looking at that “I Hate Christianity” sign stuck to the end of your nose. [/QUOTE] I DON’T care that the girls wanted to pray together and would defend their right to do so. This has nothing to do with anyone’s right to pray, it’s about one individual’s right NOT to pray. Who the hell has tried to stop those girls from praying? All this kid wanted was to stand outside the prayer circle. neither she nor the father ahs made any attempt to stop anyone else from praying. Where are you getting this stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/35 "2007-05-14T16:50:33Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] If she actually had been abused, ostracized, and whatever, I’d be the first in line to defend her. [/QUOTE] The evidence appears to indicate the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/36 "2007-05-14T16:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Nicole said, “I didn’t think they had religion in sports. But when it came to basketball they would pray before and after practices.\*\* They would pray during games.\*\* And you know, praying was a tradition for them and that is what they said.” > > Even the opposing basketball team joined in – from the stands, school officials bowed their heads. > \*\* > “You could see that all of the teachers that work at the school, the administration had their heads bowed and were saying the Lord’s Prayer with the kids. Coach has his head bowed. It’s a thing that everyone does,\*\*” Nicole said. Emphasis mine. This kind of shit is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable at a public school sanctioned function. As is the offer to drop charges against the father if he moved the family out of Oklahoma! Not just the town, but the entire state! How anyone can defend this shit is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/37 "2007-05-14T17:28:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Are they all supposed to stop praying just because she doesn’t want to pray? Justify this question. I am now the third (fourth?) person to ask you what this has to do with the topic at hand, since no one asked them all to stop praying. Your entire argument hinges on this point, so explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/38 "2007-05-14T17:31:11Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Why don’t you ask one if he shows up? Jesus, Dio, you’ve already played the Hitler card. Now we can’t even discuss this because you have pre-shat on it. You should be ashamed for comparing her to Holocaust victims. If you gave a shit about the establishment clause, then you wouldn’t care if the girls wanted to pray together. If she actually had been abused, ostracized, and whatever, I’d be the first in line to defend her. But you’re not even looking at the facts. You’re just looking at that “I Hate Christianity” sign stuck to the end of your nose. [/QUOTE] I can see how you might have a point that we shouldn’t automatically rush to the side of the girl and her family because there might be more to the story, but you seem to be doing the exact opposite and rushing to side against them. You’re just looking at that “I Love Christianity” sign stuck to the end of your nose, or at least it sure looks that way. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/39 "2007-05-14T18:44:36Z")
[QUOTE=BayleDomon] Until you explain the implication that she was somehow insisting that the rest of the team not pray, I’m afraid you don’t have a basis for this complaint. Even if **Shodan** is right, and she’s making this up out of whole cloth, I still don’t see where she was attempting to impose her views on the rest of the girls. [/QUOTE] Actually, I’ve gone beyond that. I am asking how the rest of the team is imposing their views on her. Unless you define “their views” as “don’t take my shoes without asking”. > [@Ogre](#): > > I am now the third (fourth?) person to ask you what this has to do with the topic at hand, since no one asked them all to stop praying. I think he is talking about this kind of thing - > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This kind of shit is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable at a public school sanctioned function. The trouble is, the girls want to pray. This atheist, probably at the prompting of her father, or in an attempt to get away with something, not only does not want to pray (which she is not forced to do). She wants to stop everyone else from praying. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/40 "2007-05-14T18:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] She wants to stop everyone else from praying. [/QUOTE] Feel free to back that up at any time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=3)