# Hardesty, Oklahoma, wretched hive of scum and villainy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997 "2007-05-14T04:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/41 "2007-05-14T18:54:21Z")
[QUOTE=BayleDomon] Feel free to back that up at any time. [/QUOTE] From the headline of the ABC article - > [@](#): > > A Family of Atheists Sues Their Religious Town Claiming Violation of Separation of Church and State _:shrugs:_ **Shodan** ’s rule of thumb - if they didn’t read it the first time, they won’t read it the second either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/42 "2007-05-14T19:00:19Z")
Nice. Turning a claim of harrassment into a call for suppression of religion. Good spin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/43 "2007-05-14T19:04:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] From the headline of the ABC article - _:shrugs:_ **Shodan** ’s rule of thumb - if they didn’t read it the first time, they won’t read it the second either. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Where does that say anything about them trying to prevent the other girls from praying? Did you read anything beyond the headline? The girl requested nothing but to be left out of the prayer. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/44 "2007-05-14T19:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Where does that say anything about them trying to prevent the other girls from praying? Did you read anything beyond the headline? The girl requested nothing but to be left out of the prayer. [/QUOTE] Yeah, to me it sounds like they’re suing to get the harassment to stop. They’re using the Constitution as leverage. They’re not trying to get all prayer stopped. A lucid reading of the article makes that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/45 "2007-05-14T19:15:44Z")
[QUOTE=Talon Karrde] I can see how you might have a point that we shouldn’t automatically rush to the side of the girl and her family because there might be more to the story, but you seem to be doing the exact opposite and rushing to side against them. [/QUOTE] Maybe it’s the difference between reading the text and hearing the inflections. Seeing the eyes and faces. My impression was that the girl would sooner be back playing football, and that the father wanted to make a point about his own worldview. It’s the same thing I say about Phelps’s children — or at least, his grandchildren now. Like I said, there was never a problem raised until the basketball team wanted to pray. The girl felt left out, sure. But instead of teaching her tolerance of others and explaining to her that there are people with heartfelt faith, he chose to make a scene. To whore himself on television. And to convince her that they all hated her. It was the kind of thing that, once he had his claws in it, it was bound to snowball. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/46 "2007-05-14T19:21:42Z")
**Lib** , you must be reading something far different than I am. Can you provide a link? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/47 "2007-05-14T19:25:36Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] **Lib** , you must be reading something far different than I am. Can you provide a link? [/QUOTE] Like I said, my take is from the show itself. Whether it’s online, I don’t know. I watched it Saturday night. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/48 "2007-05-14T19:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Maybe it’s the difference between reading the text and hearing the inflections. Seeing the eyes and faces. My impression was that the girl would sooner be back playing football, and that the father wanted to make a point about his own worldview. It’s the same thing I say about Phelps’s children — or at least, his grandchildren now. Like I said, there was never a problem raised until the basketball team wanted to pray. The girl felt left out, sure. But instead of teaching her tolerance of others and explaining to her that there are people with heartfelt faith, he chose to make a scene. To whore himself on television. And to convince her that they all hated her. It was the kind of thing that, once he had his claws in it, it was bound to snowball. [/QUOTE] Jesus, what a crock of shit. The problem wasn’t that the girls on the team wanted to pray and it wasn’t that the girl felt “left out” (where do you get the idea that an atheist would feel “left out” if other people prayed. Why the fuck would they want to be _included_ in that?). The problem was that the school tried to _punish_ her for not joining in the prayer. Once again, can either you or **Shodan** please either support your contention that anyone in this family tried to prevent the others from praying or retract it? In what manner, shape or fashion has anyone in this family been intolerant of others? Do you really see declining to join in a prayer circle as “intolerant?” I guess you do. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/49 "2007-05-14T19:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Maybe it’s the difference between reading the text and hearing the inflections. [/QUOTE] Yes – some people pay attention to the actual facts (pretty much everybody else); some people pay attention to the natterings of whatever voice is echoing inside their heads at the moment (you). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/50 "2007-05-14T19:31:34Z")
😃 The voices come through the TV speakers. I mean gah, you don’t have to be both ignorant AND stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/51 "2007-05-14T19:35:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Like I said, my take is from the show itself. Whether it’s online, I don’t know. I watched it Saturday night. [/QUOTE] What part of the show made any claim that the family wanted to stop anybody else from praying? I feel like your posts in this thread are giving me some real insight into the Christian Persecution Complex. Merely seeing a person decline to join in a prayer circle is aparently seen a threat – an imposition of values – even as an attempt to actively repress Christian expressions of religion. Fascinating. This gives nontheists no choice but to either conform to the group or be seen as an enemy. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/52 "2007-05-14T19:43:27Z")
The show (if this is the one **Liberal** meant) is on[YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPO_b-pWmX4) I am one third through and have to ask, why did the interviewer think it important to try to debate the existence of god with the father? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/53 "2007-05-14T19:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] My impression was that the girl would sooner be back playing football, and that the father wanted to make a point about his own worldview. It’s the same thing I say about Phelps’s children — or at least, his grandchildren now. [/QUOTE] I didn’t see the show, but that’s not what I’m getting. You seem to be under the impression that the girl is merely copying her father’s belief system rather than thinking for herself. That’s certainly possible, but my reading of the articles says to me that she knows full well what she’s doing. And that the father’s actions are the actions of someone protecting his family, not attention whoring. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/54 "2007-05-14T19:47:18Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] It seems to be reasonably well established that she was kicked off the first time for stealing someone’s shoes. She seems to have more or less admitted that she did it. [/QUOTE] I missed this admission in reading the link I picked out of the google search. It seemed more like she was accused of stealing by people who needed a legitimate reason to kick her off the team instead of their real reason - she doesn’t believe in God. It read as though they lied to keep their Christianity pure, there’s so much wrong about that I can’t even begin. In which story did she admit to theft? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/55 "2007-05-14T19:53:14Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] The show (if this is the one **Liberal** meant) is on[YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPO_b-pWmX4) I am one third through and have to ask, why did the interviewer think it important to try to debate the existence of god with the father? [/QUOTE] Because the media still thinks of atheists as abnormal – as disreputable – as morally suspect weirdos, like Satanists or Communists. I don’t think the interviewer was acting any differently than the average person on the street reacts to an atheist. I would estimate that about 75% of the people I tell that I don’t believe in God want to argue with me about it or demand that I justify it (almost always with the same tired appeals to incredulity, teleology and the cosmological argument). ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/56 "2007-05-14T19:53:28Z")
In the video she makes the claim that she borrowed the shoes and when she gave them back the other girl said, “Thank you.” Obviously, she is a godless liar :rolleyes: ETA: **Diogenes the Cynic** , same thing happens to me too, I would have thought a professional journalist could stay on track though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/57 "2007-05-14T19:56:28Z")
Considering the school tried to trump up another bogus charge that she threatened to “kill” another girl as an excuse to kick her off the team a second time, I don’t buy the “shoe-stealing” charge for a second. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/58 "2007-05-14T20:23:23Z")
If someone else’s already pointed this out, then my apologies. [QUOTE=Pedro] Anyway seems to be a groupthink mentality typical of backwards small communities. [/QUOTE] I might respectfully remind you that a jury in [Guymon, OK](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guymon,_Oklahoma) found them not guilty on all counts after 2.5 hrs. of deliberation (which included a dinner break). Guymon’s not exactly a thriving, urbane metropolis of progressive thought. It’s a hop, skip, and a jump from bumfuck nowhere, panhandle, Oklahoma. Ya might wanna try painting with a smaller brush, and with tighter, more concise strokes. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/59 "2007-05-14T20:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Next time, would you consider actually **linking to a story** and not merely showing off your terrific Google-Fu? (Especially when that consists in nothing more than typing her name into the search box…) [/QUOTE] There’s usually more to a story than is covered in a single link. There’s usually more to a story than is covered in a single set of cherry picked links. If the search results were highly ambiguous, I’d grant you have an argument, but since everything on the first page of results was related to the events in question, it works well as a highly focused aggregator. I find it more annoying when someone pits something based on a highly specifically spun version of events in the cherry picked link(s) provided… I end up doing a Google search for more facts anyway. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Quote: > “You could see that all of the teachers that work at the school, the administration had their heads bowed and were saying the Lord’s Prayer with the kids. Coach has his head bowed. It’s a thing that everyone does,” Nicole said. > > This kind of shit is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable at a public school sanctioned function. I take less issue with that, actually. If, and it’s a big if, if the students lead a prayer and it’s to a god shared by members of the audience (including audience members that are government employees), they shouldn’t feel like they aren’t allowed or shouldn’t to join in. Any more than they should feel like they aren’t allowed to say a little ditty to some other god of their choice, or make some secular affirmation of commitment ro fair play and sportsmanship, or say nothing at all. The problem is that the school failed, rather spectacularly, to supply an atmosphere where anything other than praying along would be okay and went so far as to punish a person that voiced a concern about feeling dishonest by pretending to participate. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/60 "2007-05-14T20:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] The trouble is, the girls want to pray. This atheist, probably at the prompting of her father, or in an attempt to get away with something, not only does not want to pray (which she is not forced to do). [/QUOTE] Having everyone in attendance pray before, during, and after the game is inappropriate at a school sanctioned event, regardless of how many “girls” want to pray. > [@](#): > > She wants to stop everyone else from praying. I will add my voice to those asking for any evidence of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=4)