# Hardesty, Oklahoma, wretched hive of scum and villainy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997 "2007-05-14T04:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/121 "2007-05-15T15:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Watch the show. Except that it isn’t true. They offered (1) to let her stand with the girls, without praying, for team solidarity; (2) to let her stand away from the girls while they pray; and (3) to let her go to the locker room while they pray. What other choices are there? [/QUOTE] The first option is no offer at all and when she exercised the other two offers she was punished for it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/122 "2007-05-15T15:34:15Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Watch the show. [/QUOTE] Howsabout BOTH? You’re basing all of your opinions on the show, while other people who’ve actually read the accompanying links which include information NOT SHOWN ON THE SHOW try very hard to explain to you without their heads exploding that you don’t have ALL the information. Is this somehow difficult to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/123 "2007-05-15T15:36:23Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] You’re basing all of your opinions on the show, while other people who’ve actually read the accompanying links which include information NOT SHOWN ON THE SHOW try very hard to explain to you without their heads exploding that you don’t have ALL the information. [/QUOTE] You mean the lawsuit? Those are the FATHER’S charges, not the girl’s. He’s the one suing. Buy a fucking clue. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/124 "2007-05-15T15:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That was a question to _you_, the posters here, not a question for the girl. What pissed her father off was that the kids were praying at a school function, violating, according to him, the Constitution. [/QUOTE] Well, in that case, (and maybe this is a hijack better left to GD), er, actually, yes, I’ll start something [there](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8575029#post8575029). ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/125 "2007-05-15T15:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You mean the lawsuit? Those are the FATHER’S charges, not the girl’s. He’s the one suing. Buy a fucking clue. :smack: [/QUOTE] Note to self, dolts are uninstructable, and assholes are unappreciative. Save energy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/126 "2007-05-15T15:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] Well, in that case, (and maybe this is a hijack better left to GD), er, actually, yes, I’ll start something [there](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8575029#post8575029). [/QUOTE] Thank you! I’m there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/127 "2007-05-15T15:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] Note to self, dolts are uninstructable, and assholes are unappreciative. Save energy. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8575025&postcount=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8575025&postcount=2) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/128 "2007-05-15T15:51:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] And why didn’t he raise hell when she was playing football with the boys? They were all still Christian, but just didn’t gather for prayer before games. [/QUOTE] Because the father is anti-oppression, not anti-religion. I don’t know why you included this as evidence that the father is some raging asshole, because it shows just the opposite. He doesn’t have a problem with Christians so long as they don’t impose their beliefs on his daughter and make her feel threatened and unwelcome. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/129 "2007-05-15T15:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Once again, because I _saw him speak_. [/QUOTE] I saw the very same thing and came to very different conclusions. > [@](#): > > He even sat in on her interview, coaching her. Yeah, what a big ol’ meanie, being there with his daughter! If he were a responsible father, he would have made her go to the interview all alone. > [@](#): > > When she cried, he didn’t hug her, he patted her on the back! OMG! The monster! Perhaps he didn’t think it appropriate to hug her on national TV. At any rate, you’re reading far too much into that. > [@](#): > > He called the town’s people “a gang, a religious gang”, even though four of them from the local church, when interviewed, said that Christians should welcome atheists, and that no one should treat the girl badly. Four people hardly constitute the entire town. Remember that a lot of people refused an interview. And consider that 20/20, that bastion of responsible reporting, may have cherry-picked the interviews. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, the father said that “the school is conspiring basically to run the atheists out of town, or at least get them out of the school, simple as that.” I don’t think he ever said anything about her. All he talked about was why God doesn’t exist and what meanies all the faithful are. Once again, 20/20 didn’t show the entire interview, they showed stuff that is going to sell dish soap and dog food. They edited. And yes, the school did conspire. With the police. You seem to forget that they tried to prosecute the father. His crime? His daughter’s an atheist. That’s not him seeking attention. That’s a town full of ignorant inbred hicks acting like ignorant inbred hicks. > [@](#): > > If he cared for her and was half as smart as the thinks he is, then why did he ever subject her to all this to start with? What the hell was he thinking when he moved his family to Bumfuck Population 300 right in Middle America? Do you think for one second that he did not KNOW that his daughter would feel out of place in the little school? I’m not a mind-reader, I don’t know what he was thinking. But I would bet good money that he didn’t think that moving to Bumfuck Population 300 was a great way to gain national notariety. > [@](#): > > It was just very hard to tell from her interview, with him hovering over her, Sitting next to her was hovering over her? In what universe? > [@](#): > > There was no indication from anything in the piece to suggest that she couldn’t have gotten along had her father not made a stink over it. Actually, there was every indication. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/130 "2007-05-15T15:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You mean the lawsuit? Those are the FATHER’S charges, not the girl’s. He’s the one suing. Buy a fucking clue. :smack: [/QUOTE] A (Christian) jury has already decided that at the very least, the principal of the school trumped up a false allegation of assault as a means to intimidate him into moving out of the state. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/131 "2007-05-15T16:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You mean the lawsuit? Those are the FATHER’S charges, not the girl’s. He’s the one suing. Buy a fucking clue. :smack: [/QUOTE] Sorry, dude, but you’ll have to pay for it yourself. The free ones we’ve been offering you don’t seem to be taking. The father was assualted, threatened, and conspired against. Of fucking course he’s filing charges. And his daughter is not old enough to. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/132 "2007-05-15T16:15:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > There was no indication from anything in the piece to suggest that she couldn’t have gotten along had her father not made a stink over it. Like we’ve tried to tell you, the 20/20 piece was incomplete. Does [this](http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06b/smalkowski.html) constitute any “indication” that the town was willing to get along with the family (as long as the daughter participated in the prayers, of course). > [@](#): > > The whole family was under constant stress. Police trying to get search warrants to the property by having ex-employees file false statements. Other cops trying to hire ex-cons to beat me up. The whole town knows of it! The Sheriff trying to have my bond pulled by the bail bondsman when there was no legal way to do it. My kids have been out of school since November. Principal’s son saying should he get a gun when he sees my daughter and my son. DA has yet to reply to our concerns. The Department of Human Services comes to my place saying they received a complaint that I starve my kids. It was even obvious to them the charge was bogus. > > ``` > We have become very good at using back roads. The police follow us around. Traffic tickets that when challenged were dropped in court. Not to mention the stares and whispers, the betrayal from employees, one of my healthy dogs dying. Brush fires starting up upwind. > > An FBI agent even said, “ You aren't kidding”. When it was obvious someone followed us and was watching our meeting out in the middle of nowhere. I was told about a few things. All I can say is that some of the crooks out here now charged with crimes wore badges and guns! But he could not help my family and me. Not without witnesses willing to come forward. One scared witness left the state. The last words she spoke to me were, Chuck I don't want to end up dead in a ditch! Just what you would expect life to be like out here in the Bible belt! > > ``` Yes, these are only the father’s own words. Do you believe him or do you think he’s making it all up? There’s more than this. His half-Native American daughter was called a “half-breed” at school in front of teachers who did nothing about it. Maybe you can see that as inapprpriate if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/133 "2007-05-15T16:59:11Z")
Would judging this family based on one 9 minute interview on 20/20 be akin to judging all Christians the world over by the actions of one subset? Or do I have my analogies all fucked up? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/134 "2007-05-15T17:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=redtail23] The Texas high school football case a few years back (which I believe was in the Texas panhandle, not too far from this area) was similar. I heard tapes of the high school kids who simple could not understand why required prayer was a problem. Of course it was OK to make everyone pray to Jesus, after all, that’s the right thing to do. And it would be horribly wrong to expect anyone to listen to, much less participate in, a prayer from a different religion - they’re all going to hell, why would anyone allow that? And they were absolutely serious. [/QUOTE] I think you’re thinking of Santa Fe High School, kinda between Houston and Galveston. I actually grew up there (okay, I was only there 'til fourth grade or so). I remember the prayers at the football games quite clearly. My ex-stepfather is a Lutheran minister in that area, now. When all the furor over the prayers started making the papers, he held the position that the prayers had no place in school. I really respect him for that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/135 "2007-05-15T17:12:34Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes, these are only the father’s own words. Do you believe him or do you think he’s making it all up? [/quote] [http://fff.fathom.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15879](http://fff.fathom.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15879) > [@](#): > > There’s more than this. His half-Native American daughter was called a “half-breed” at school in front of teachers who did nothing about it. Maybe you can see that as inapprpriate if nothing else. […wincing at "Native American…] Look, the whole thing is inappropriate. It’s inappropriate to move his family to a place that he has already declared his whole life to be hostile — yes, he has the right, but given his apparently aggressive activism, it was pure stupidity. If, for the sake of argument, they’re as bad as he claims, then he’s like an African-American man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Aryan Nation, or a Jewish man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Nation of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![guppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7feea3/32.png) [@guppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guppy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/136 "2007-05-15T17:22:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] [http://fff.fathom.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15879](http://fff.fathom.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15879) […wincing at "Native American…] Look, the whole thing is inappropriate. It’s inappropriate to move his family to a place that he has already declared his whole life to be hostile — yes, he has the right, but given his apparently aggressive activism, it was pure stupidity. If, for the sake of argument, they’re as bad as he claims, then he’s like an African-American man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Aryan Nation, or a Jewish man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Nation of Islam. [/QUOTE] So if a racist or a xenophobe lives in a community it would be inappropriate for a minority to move there? Breaking the fucking law is inappropriate, not moving to a rural community in America. If the locals are hostil and start breaking the law the government needs to come down on them, hard. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/137 "2007-05-15T17:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Look, the whole thing is inappropriate. It’s inappropriate to move his family to a place that he has already declared his whole life to be hostile — yes, he has the right, but given his apparently aggressive activism, it was pure stupidity. [/QUOTE] You’re really going off the rails here. For one thing, they lived there for three years with no problem. Where do you get that he declared it hostile his whole life? Now you’re just making stuff up. Second, where do you get the aggressive activism from? Defending your rights in the face of hostility (from the law, no less) is not the same as burning a red, white, and blue bra on the White House lawn. Please don’t answer yet again that you watched the video. That’s not an answer, that’s an evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/138 "2007-05-15T17:36:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > People are making up a whole bunch of shit to shoot at… Yeah. Stuff like, > [@](#): > > What happened was that the father tried to prevent his daughter from standing with them while they prayed, even though she was (until he freaked out) content to stand with them and wait quietly as a show of solidarity with her team. Or, > [@](#): > > yes, he has the right, but given his apparently aggressive activism, it was pure stupidity. Or, > [@](#): > > The girl felt left out, sure. But instead of teaching her tolerance of others and explaining to her that there are people with heartfelt faith, he chose to make a scene. To whore himself on television. And to convince her that they all hated her. It was the kind of thing that, once he had his claws in it, it was bound to snowball. Or, my favorite of all, > [@](#): > > I’ll defend any atheist who is “abused” by Christians… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/139 "2007-05-15T17:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] It’s inappropriate to move his family to a place that he has already declared his whole life to be hostile — yes, he has the right, but given his apparently aggressive activism, it was pure stupidity. If, for the sake of argument, they’re as bad as he claims, then he’s like an African-American man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Aryan Nation, or a Jewish man knowingly moving his family to the home of the Nation of Islam. [/QUOTE] Get a grip, **Lib**. It seems the community (or at least certain very vocal members) turned on the family only when the daughter wouldn’t join in prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997/140 "2007-05-15T17:47:03Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] I do not want to tear the focus away from the justifiable hostility towards the mockery that town is making of church and state, but… 1010011010?? Most Dopers are capable of running a Google search by themselves without help. Really. In fact, many of us can even dress ourselves all by ourselves! [/SIZE] [/QUOTE] On the other hand, whether we actually remember to look at a mirror before we leave the house is another matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hardesty-oklahoma-wretched-hive-of-scum-and-villainy/403997.md?page=8)