# Harlan Ellison (1934-2018) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945 "2018-06-28T19:32:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/41 "2018-06-29T14:17:56Z")
He arguably wrote his own epitaph. The closing narration of “Paladin of the Lost Hour”. “Like a wind crying endlessly through the universe, time carries away the names and deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we were, all that remains is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment. A blessing of the 18th Egyptian Dynasty: God be between you and harm in all the empty places you walk.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/42 "2018-06-29T15:30:46Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > So, how does this impact the release date of _The Last Dangerous Visions_? > [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Adversely? A friend of mine wrote the very first story Harlan bought for TLDV. I think it was early 1972. He gave up hope a long time ago. But he got paid for it three times as Harlan moved publishers and got new advances. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/43 "2018-06-29T17:34:19Z")
So, is it possible that we might get a collection titled, “Well, here’s all the stories that Ellison was thinking about putting into The Last Dangerous Visions”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/44 "2018-06-29T18:02:57Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > He wrote the TOS episode City on the Edge of Forever. > > RIP. He was so angry at the massive edit that he published various versions of his scripts collected in a book. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/45 "2018-06-29T18:03:00Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > So, is it possible that we might get a collection titled, “Well, here’s all the stories that Ellison was thinking about putting into The Last Dangerous Visions”? 🙂 Well, some. Many authors have formally rescinded their rights so they could publish their work elsewhere. And many of the ones who didn’t wouldn’t want psychedelic stories from their salad years published in the light of the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/46 "2018-06-29T18:16:02Z")
Maybe the book could be titled _The Lost Dangerous Visions_? Or _The Late Dangerous Visions_? Or _The Not-So-Dangerous Anymore Visions_? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/47 "2018-06-29T21:53:12Z")
Just a note for fans: _Blood’s A Rover_ will be released this fall. It is the compiled version of all of the _A Boy and His Dog_ material. Stories, game, interstitial material, everything in one unified volume. Given that Harlan left instructions to have all his notes and unfinished work destroyed, this will be the last book from him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/48 "2018-06-29T21:58:39Z")
I really wish I could have gotten him to sign my copy of _Doomsman_. The last person I heard tried that, Ellison bought the book from him and then proceeded to tear it into shreds on the spot. (He did sign the _Telepower_ half by Lee Hoffman, though, and gave it to the guy.) ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/49 "2018-06-29T22:02:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Just a note for fans: _Blood’s A Rover_ will be released this fall. It is the compiled version of all of the _A Boy and His Dog_ material. Stories, game, interstitial material, everything in one unified volume. Given that Harlan left instructions to have all his notes and unfinished work destroyed, this will be the last book from him. Well, Kafka left the same instructions, and we know how that worked out… ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/50 "2018-06-29T22:08:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > He was so angry at the massive edit that he published various versions of his scripts collected in a book. And his version sucked. It was bad story, bad screenplay, and bad Star Trek. The show turned a POS screenplay into an awesome episode, no thanks to HE. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/51 "2018-06-29T22:13:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > He was so angry at the massive edit that he published various versions of his scripts collected in a book. His version (IMO) kinda sucked (everyone was out of character for one thing). So did Roddenberry’s. The “collaboration” of the two produced one of the all-time great Star Trek episodes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/52 "2018-06-29T22:20:05Z")
Bad enough to win the Writers Guild of America Award for Best Episodic Drama on Television. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/53 "2018-06-29T22:23:14Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Well, Kafka left the same instructions, and we know how that worked out… And if he was wrong about there being an afterlife, would you want to be the one to confront the ghost of Harlan Ellison? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/54 "2018-06-29T23:39:32Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Bad enough to win the Writers Guild of America Award for Best Episodic Drama on Television. :: shrug :: Awards don’t make something good and they don’t change (or often account for) wildly out of character behavior. (Kirk doesn’t freeze in the face of a tough decision. That’s probably his number one trait–he acts, and to hell with the consequences. Spock doesn’t get in rage-filled screaming arguments, and certainly not with Kirk, and Kirk doesn’t say things like (paraphrased) “I wish I’d just left you there to be lynched” to Spock.) Awards apparently also don’t realize that a script has to stay within a budget and Ellison’s script called for a whole new batch of ship sets to be built (for the Condor). Plus the stupid subplot with the WWI guy (Trooper?) was just awful. I mean, it was terrible. Audience manipulation of the worst sort. Ellison knew better, he just didn’t seem to care. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/55 "2018-06-29T23:43:43Z")
:shrug: Eh. Mere quibbles. I dislike Gene Roddenberry intensely, so any conflict between the two goes Harlan’s way by default. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/56 "2018-06-30T00:21:12Z")
Harlan was Tuckerized in Ben Bova’s _The Starcrossed_, a thinly disguised novel about the making of _The Starlost_. Bova was technical advisor on the show and the entire book was based on his experiences. The character of Ron Gabriel was not just based on Harlan, it _was_ Harlan. Bova and Ellison were friends – they collaborated on the short story “Brillo” – so I’m sure Ellison was. Most people who follow Ellison’s career know that, when he felt a script had been ruined by the producers, he used the pseudonym “Cordwainer Bird.” “Cordwainer” from the great Cordwainer Smith and “Bird” because that’s what he was giving everyone. But Ellison first used the name in a different context: as a character that showed up in an episode of _Burke’s Law_ that Harlan wrote. Bird was played by Sammy Davis, Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/57 "2018-06-30T00:43:38Z")
Well, I posted a memorial to Ellison on FB, and someone shit on it by bringing up the incident with Connie Willis which most of the people in this thread probably already know about. [Here’s my rebuttal to the guy](https://s15.postimg.cc/ttyqu3561/ellison.jpg), and you may or may not agree with my logic there, but I stand by my judgment that it was not “sexual assault.” It still wasn’t an appropriate thing for Ellison to have done, but I got very indignant that this person felt the need to bring that up on my post. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/58 "2018-06-30T00:45:51Z")
Isaac Asimov also modeled a character on Ellison, specifically Darius Just, who if the lead character in “Murder at the ABA”, and who also appears on one of the good doctor’s “Black Widowers” stories. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/59 "2018-06-30T02:39:27Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > [Here’s my rebuttal to the guy](https://s15.postimg.cc/ttyqu3561/ellison.jpg), and you may or may not agree with my logic there, but I stand by my judgment that it was not “sexual assault.” It still wasn’t an appropriate thing for Ellison to have done, but I got very indignant that this person felt the need to bring that up on my post. How is groping a woman’s breasr not sexual assault? Look, here’s the thing about Harlan Ellison. He was an asshole. He was rude, he was litigious, and just generally a jerk. He was also a brilliant writer, and his stuff inspired so many people. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/60 "2018-06-30T02:47:21Z")
That’s an entirely different discussion, but I tried to explain my thought process there in the linked post. The context matters, and while I would never, ever do something like what Ellison did, I still can’t put it in the same category as sexual assault. Again, I explained my reasoning; but if you don’t agree, you don’t agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945.md?page=4)