# Harlan Ellison (1934-2018) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945 "2018-06-28T19:32:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/81 "2018-06-30T20:31:54Z")
For those who’ve never seen it, the '80’s Twilight Zone adaptation of “Paladin of the Lost Hour” is a fine piece of work. [The Twilight Zone 1x16 Paladin of The Lost Hour - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgpx_VtO30&t=476s) Have tissue handy. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/82 "2018-06-30T22:07:17Z")
Mr. Ellison in the field of comic books: > **[The Harlan Ellison Comics Bibliography](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/ruckus24/lists/the-harlan-ellison-comics-bibliography/30131/)** > > This is a bibliography of all of the comics work of Harlan Ellison. Though comparatively his work in comics seems slight, he had a lot of influence ov ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/83 "2018-06-30T22:29:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > But that’s just one incident. Would you want to be judged only by the worst thing you’ve ever done? ‘But you have sex with a sheep _one time…_’ ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/84 "2018-06-30T22:36:26Z")
Heh. But it’s also not the only time he did it. It’s only the most well-known incident. A number of other women have reported similar behavior. It doesn’t do him or his victims any favors by ignoring his abusive behavior and only focusing on his apparent good points. He was a complex human being who by word-of-mouth did some amazingly kind things and by documented evidence did some really gross, abusive and rapey type things. In addition he wrote some good science fiction. These are all parts of who he was. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/85 "2018-06-30T22:38:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘But you have sex with a sheep _one time…_’ This is exactly the analogy that came to mind regarding this incident. Call it sexual assault or not - and I’m acknowledging here, just for the record, that I understand why it could be called sexual assault - it doesn’t rise to the level of being the kind of misdeed that’s severe enough that bringing it up on a post intended to memorialize him and mourn his passing, could reasonably considered appropriate or classy. In any case, I do apologize for the hijack because it was, in fact, me who brought it up here in this thread in the first place. (Yes, my username is different. I just changed it. See MPSIMS for a brief explanation.) Ellison’s legacy lives in on _Black Mirror_ and in all future shows which will be influenced by that one (I’m guessing there will be a lot of them). The intersection of technological contrivances with dire scenarios regarding the consciousness or what would have been in earlier eras called “the soul” will always make me think of Ellison when I see it come up in plot devices. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/86 "2018-07-01T00:50:23Z")
[Moderating] > [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > **FUCK** Ellison. > > That pile of garbage, strike that, he’s that brownish oily liquid that seeps out from piles of garbage left to stew on a NYC sidewalk in mid August sexually assaulted my mom in an elevator during the National Book Convention in Washington DC. > > Has anyone ever been more full of themselves, go watch is video review of Saving Mr. Banks sometime and see how long you last be fore walking away in disgust. > > **FUCK** Harlan Ellison. If that’s how you feel about him, take it to the Pit. If you have polite things to say about Ellison, go ahead. That includes polite criticism, if you think that’s what’s appropriate. If you can’t be civil, or if you don’t want to discuss Ellison himself, you don’t need to be in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/87 "2018-07-01T00:55:22Z")
My FB feed has a few folks eulogizing him, and a few folks telling about their first- or second-hand experiences with him treating folks in an appalling, often illegal manner. Friend of mine wrote, > [@](#): > > I’m reaching the conclusion that people are pretending “talented but utter asshole” means “charmingly and adorably cantankerous.” and I think that’s about right. He had this entitled enfant terrible thing going on. Maybe, maybe if his fiction spoke to me more I’d be more conflicted about him. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/88 "2018-07-01T00:59:04Z")
My experience with Ellison started when I must have been ~14 and picked up a copy of his then new anthology **Stalking the Nightmare**. It may not have been his best collection, but I think it was a very good introduction to his style. The personal essay were utterly fascinationg to me( Disney, the Starlost saga, tales of his adventures )and I still love the bleak _Grail_ and the pretty amusing _Djinn, No Chaser_. In some ways I think he was a better fantasy writer than SF. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/89 "2018-07-01T01:05:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He had this entitled enfant terrible thing going on. Probably so, to some extent. But I find it interesting that in his remembrance John Scalzi mentions how he once led a protest at a con against Arizona not passing the ERA. A complex guy, who seems to have been passionate about _everything_ in life, for good or bad. Folks that intense are really kind of rare. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/90 "2018-07-01T02:14:22Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Probably so, to some extent. But I find it interesting that in his remembrance John Scalzi mentions how he once led a protest at a con against Arizona not passing the ERA. A complex guy, who seems to have been passionate about _everything_ in life, for good or bad. Folks that intense are really kind of rare. I think he can be described as the oldest “Angry Young Man” - and a good proof of why you shouldn’t let your adolescence define you for life. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/91 "2018-07-01T02:43:11Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Probably so, to some extent. But I find it interesting that in his remembrance John Scalzi mentions how he once led a protest at a con against Arizona not passing the ERA. A complex guy, who seems to have been passionate about _everything_ in life, for good or bad. Folks that intense are really kind of rare. I also read someone saying he’d mentored Octavia Butler, who is one of the best. There’s no doubt that Ellison was complex, but it’s absolutely true that you fuck one sheep… When we look at folks’ lives, we look at their accomplishments, but we tend to weigh their sins on a separate scale. Ellison’s accomplishments went beyond those of most writers; but his sins also did. The greatness of his stories doesn’t get weighed against his violent assaults on those around him. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/92 "2018-07-01T05:07:40Z")
Even when his scripts were watered-down and he Alan Smithee-'d them as Cordwainer Bird, they still blew the mind of this Canadian kid. May there be a sympathetic Mu Lambda 165 to guide you in the next life. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/93 "2018-07-01T07:11:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The episode is available on YouTube, and I will be watching it again when I get home tonight. Is there any way you can link to it? I’d love to see it, and I can’t find it using Google. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/94 "2018-07-01T07:41:02Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Is there any way you can link to it? I’d love to see it, and I can’t find it using Google. I misremembered slightly-It was Harlan Ellison, Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe [_on Nightcap_,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvcKB9vQO0) with Studs Terkel and Calvin Trillin. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/95 "2018-07-01T12:07:49Z")
I’m not conflicted about him at all. He was, without a doubt, an excellent writer. He was also, without a doubt, personally reprehensible. Those are two completely independent traits, and so there is no conflict. One bit of his that’s stuck with me: “Paladin of the Lost Hour” starts with a young man rescuing an old man from a beating at the hands of some street thugs. Ellison describes the young and old man as “One of these two men was white, and the other was black”, but never says which is which. I always find myself oscillating between which way I picture the characters, and can’t decide whether it really changes the dynamic of the story or not. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/96 "2018-07-01T15:57:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My FB feed has a few folks eulogizing him, and a few folks telling about their first- or second-hand experiences with him treating folks in an appalling, often illegal manner. Yet it seems that for every tale of violating others’ boundaries or of entitled _“I know for 100% certain I am fuckin’ right, why should I care how you feel”_ attitude, there’s another one of generosity and magnanimity and of how he was the sort of friend you wanted by your side when the shit hit the fan. Very many people are in the same boat. That is a theme we have repeatedly brought up in many a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/97 "2018-07-01T18:57:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I misremembered slightly-It was Harlan Ellison, Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe [_on Nightcap_,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvcKB9vQO0) with Studs Terkel and Calvin Trillin. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/98 "2018-07-01T18:58:54Z")
Ellison certainly had his good side and his bad side. A very talented writer and often considerate of and generous to his friends, but caustic, aggressive and annoyingly opinionated, as well. The first two items here, an obit and a remembrance, both by Mark Dawidziak, are worth a read: [Harlan Ellison, fiery and brilliant writer from Cleveland, dead at 84 - cleveland.com](https://www.cleveland.com/tv-blog/index.ssf/2018/06/harlan_ellison_fiery_and_brilliant_writer_from_cleveland_dead_at_84.html) > [@RealityChuck](#): > > …Most people who follow Ellison’s career know that, when he felt a script had been ruined by the producers, he used the pseudonym “Cordwainer Bird.” “Cordwainer” from the great Cordwainer Smith and “Bird” because that’s what he was giving everyone… I’ve also seen it explained that a cordwainer is a shoemaker, and birds don’t need shoes, so a shoemaker for birds is a useless person (who might, though, now take credit for a incompetently-altered script that the writer didn’t wish to). > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > - did like his character Trooper, I believe reduced to the homeless guy who accidentally kills himself with McCoy’s phaser. Trooper in the so-so graphic novel adaptation of Ellison’s “City on the Edge of Forever” script looks an awful lot like Ellison himself: [https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/1631402064/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530470536&sr=8-1&keywords=ellison+city+edge+forever](https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/1631402064/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530470536&sr=8-1&keywords=ellison+city+edge+forever) I highly recommend the illustrated screenplay of the never-produced _I Robot_ movie (much truer to Asimov’s original than the Will Smith version): [https://www.amazon.com/Robot-Illustrated-Screenplay-Harlan-Ellison/dp/1596870419/ref=sr\_1\_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1530470810&sr=1-1&keywords=ellison+i+robot+screenplay&dpID=41ZVU6xmo0L&preST=\_SY291\_BO1,204,203,200\_QL40\_&dpSrc=srch](https://www.amazon.com/Robot-Illustrated-Screenplay-Harlan-Ellison/dp/1596870419/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1530470810&sr=1-1&keywords=ellison+i+robot+screenplay&dpID=41ZVU6xmo0L&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch) Depite all your many faults, may you rest in peace, Harlan. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/99 "2018-07-01T19:39:12Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Probably so, to some extent. But I find it interesting that in his remembrance John Scalzi mentions how he once led a protest at a con against Arizona not passing the ERA. A complex guy, who seems to have been passionate about _everything_ in life, for good or bad. Folks that intense are really kind of rare. That’s not that surprising. Guys who are loudly, performatively feminist in public but creeps behinds closed doors are their own cliche. I imagine more than one pick-up attempt started with some variation of, “So, I was protesting the failure of the ERA in Arizona…” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945/100 "2018-07-01T19:39:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yet it seems that for every tale of violating others’ boundaries or of entitled _“I know for 100% certain I am fuckin’ right, why should I care how you feel”_ attitude, there’s another one of generosity and magnanimity and of how he was the sort of friend you wanted by your side when the shit hit the fan. > > Very many people are in the same boat. That is a theme we have repeatedly brought up in many a thread. That’s how Stephen King described him in _Danse Macabre_ as the, and I am paraphrasing here, the one person he wants by his side if King ever suffers a heart attack because no one would ensure the availability of World-Famous Cardiologists like a mad HE. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-1934-2018/816945.md?page=6)