# Harlan Ellison, The City on the Edge of Forever script **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036 "2016-03-15T02:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/21 "2016-03-16T13:54:51Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Y’know how, in the filmed ep, **Spock has to stop Kirk from saving Edith** and how powerful it was that Edith was the one woman Kirk was willing to consider sacrificing the Enterprise for? In the Ellison version, Kirk just…freezes in indecision. Whee. Big drama there. And _totally_ in character for Kirk. :rolleyes: The filmed script has **Kirk** stopping **McCoy** from saving Edith. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/22 "2016-03-16T14:16:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Trooper, the double amputee? A little, but more Edith’s dialogue (IIRC). She didn’t sound time-period appropriate like she did in the filmed version, she sounded like a reject from the cast of HAIR. (IIRC) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/23 "2016-03-16T14:18:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The filmed script has **Kirk** stopping **McCoy** from saving Edith. I thought Kirk stopped McCoy from…something, and then Spock had to put his hand on Kirk’s shoulder to stop Kirk from helping her avoid the truck. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/24 "2016-03-16T14:20:56Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I thought Kirk stopped McCoy from…something, and then Spock had to put his hand on Kirk’s shoulder to stop Kirk from helping her avoid the truck. I think Spock is still behind them when McCoy says, “Do you know what you just did, Jim?” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/25 "2016-03-16T14:22:08Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Riker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29). Unintentional, but he did get the entire ship (minus 2) addicted. The dude had severe back pain. Hence the chair/Riker manuever thing. Give the man a break 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/26 "2016-03-16T14:37:50Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I thought Kirk stopped McCoy from…something, and then Spock had to put his hand on Kirk’s shoulder to stop Kirk from helping her avoid the truck. McCoy sobers up. He sees K/S on the street. There is a joyous reunion. Edith spots them and crosses the street towards them. Bones sees the truck bearing down and moves to save her. Kirk grabs him and we hear Edith get turned into roadkill. McCoy has a horrified look on his face and says “I could have saved her. Do you know what you just did, Jim?” Then Spock replies, and we see the anguish on Kirk’s face. “He knows, Doctor. He knows.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/27 "2016-03-16T14:40:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think Spock is still behind them when McCoy says, “Do you know what you just did, Jim?” The scene is Kirk sees Edith, and instinctively runs towards her. Spock yells, and Kirk stops, because he knows this is it, that he can’t help. McCoy also sees, and runs to help. Kirk bear hugs McCoy to stop him, but also so he doesn’t have to watch. He only hears the tires and the impact. McCoy sees it all. You can see in his face how it affects Kirk. Then McCoy says “Do you know what you did? I could have saved her!” “He knows, Doctor.” Spock, of course, has no trouble not saving her. That damned Vulcan logic again!. 🙂 on edit: too slow ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/28 "2016-03-16T14:40:44Z")
Yes. Here are their relative positions at that tragic moment: [http://www.treknologic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/16-kirk-saves-history.jpg](http://www.treknologic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/16-kirk-saves-history.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/29 "2016-03-16T14:41:43Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > I haven’t read the original script and hated the TV ep.'s reliance on a _deus ex machina_. Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/30 "2016-03-16T14:47:34Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Spock had to put his hand on Kirk’s shoulder to stop Kirk from helping her avoid the truck. IIRC, he just said “No, Jim!” They were too far apart for him to put his hand on Kirk’s shoulder. This was THE big scene. For a second or two, we don’t know which way Kirk’s going to go. It isn’t until he turns to stop McCoy that it’s clear he’s going to sacrifice Edith. That was what made it so dramatic. I remember the first time I saw it. I was literally on the edge of my seat, waiting to see how it would end. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/31 "2016-03-16T14:47:50Z")
Jebus was driving the truck. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/32 "2016-03-16T14:50:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Spock, of course, has no trouble not saving her. That damned Vulcan logic again! I wouldn’t say he was indifferent to it. He just knew that was the way it had to be. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/33 "2016-03-16T14:58:29Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > This was THE big scene. For a second or two, we don’t know which way Kirk’s going to go. It isn’t until he turns to stop McCoy that it’s clear he’s going to sacrifice Edith. Right. **Fenris** ’ recollection is essentially correct. Spock does (verbally) stop Kirk, and Kirk’s moment of decision is the climax of the episode’s drama. And thus, a version in which he _makes no decision_ is far weaker. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/34 "2016-03-16T16:53:29Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The scene is Kirk sees Edith, and instinctively runs towards her. Spock yells, and Kirk stops, because he knows this is it, that he can’t help. McCoy also sees, and runs to help. Kirk bear hugs McCoy to stop him, but also so he doesn’t have to watch. He only hears the tires and the impact. McCoy sees it all. You can see in his face how it affects Kirk. Then McCoy says “Do you know what you did? I could have saved her!” “He knows, Doctor.” > > Spock, of course, has no trouble not saving her. That damned Vulcan logic again!. 🙂 > > on edit: too slow Give Spock a break, he was recovering from a rice-picker accident. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/35 "2016-03-16T16:58:58Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Give Spock a break, he was recovering from a rice-picker accident. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/36 "2016-03-16T23:08:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Yes. > > Plus the original script had everyone acting out of character, a failure of the author to be familiar with the basic “rules” of the universe (Star Fleet simply doesn’t have skeevy 1950’s style drug-pushers in their ranks), preachy, completely ham-fisted anti-Vietnam stuff and a totally horrible climax. > > Y’know how, in the filmed ep, Spock has to stop Kirk from saving Edith and how powerful it was that Edith was the one woman Kirk was willing to consider sacrificing the Enterprise for? In the Ellison version, Kirk just…freezes in indecision. Whee. Big drama there. And _totally_ in character for Kirk. :rolleyes: I agree about the original script. If someone screwed around with an Ellison universe they way he was screwing around with Roddenberry’s you’d hear his scream though he had no mouth. But, where is the deus ex machina again in the filmed version? Maybe that they wound up in the same place, though that was explained and the Guardian might well have been helping. Ordinarily the truck would be one, but it was the very reason they were there. Spock does not stop Kirk. Spock’s words break Kirk out of instinctive reaction to save her, and forces him to make a choice. That is good writing. Especially since the right choice was the most painful choice. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/37 "2016-03-17T05:11:16Z")
In 1979, Harlan Ellison visited my college English class. I had read Strange Wine, so I knew how he felt about Star Trek. I asked him a question about Star Trek anyway. He did not answer. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/38 "2016-03-17T11:46:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > He even makes a cameo appearance: [http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/1631402064/ref=sr\_1\_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458071755&sr=1-1&keywords=ellison+city+edge](http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/1631402064/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458071755&sr=1-1&keywords=ellison+city+edge) Hardly a cameo. He’s the physical model for Trooper, who gets a relatively significant speaking role and is key to the plot’s resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/39 "2016-03-17T14:52:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Huh? 😕 “The Guardian of Forever.” Kind of a lazy plot device. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036/40 "2016-03-17T15:25:02Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > “The Guardian of Forever.” Kind of a lazy plot device. His script had “the guardians of forever”, two old, tall grey guys in robes. I imagine taller, bearded versions of the aliens in “The Cage”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harlan-ellison-the-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-script/749036.md?page=3)