# Harley bashing & Coldfire **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037 "2004-04-20T15:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/61 "2004-04-20T21:23:22Z")
> [@Bandanaman](#): > > Oh well. I tried. > > Argue away about Jap vs. Harley, but the fact remains, Harley’s are great bikes, and _most_ of the riders I’m with are responsible adults. As with any culture, there are always those that bring it down, but to slam them all, and to defame a product because of a few, just seems wrong. Do you know the only difference between a Harley and a Hoover? Where the dirt bag rides. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Tezmac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@Tezmac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tezmac)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/62 "2004-04-20T21:40:53Z")
> [@booka](#): > > Reliability-wise, they are very good, but they still have their share of problems, especially in first-year models. They also drop in value pretty fast once out of the showroom. I don’t know where you pulled this from. Some saying I liked from awhile back went something like “Harley Davidson, most efficient way of turning a fossil fuel into nothing but noise.” ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/63 "2004-04-20T22:06:44Z")
Actually, **Marc** , the punchline is “the _position_ of the dirtbag”, but your joke is waaay funny nonetheless. Bandaids, please…my sides are splitting. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/64 "2004-04-20T22:18:58Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Huh? Don’t you mean “libertarianism?” > > Ohhhh, I get it! You have come over to the Dark Side for only as long as it takes to change the regime and then you’re back in your old camp. No problem. Practical politics has always made for interesting bedfellows. 😃 Yes, I’m afraid so. The erosion of civil liberties in the past three years has stirred me to do my best to unseat Emperor Bush and his executioner, John Asshole. But liberals are not making it easy. This whole hate speech craziness has the same dark ethical heart as the Patriot Act. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/65 "2004-04-20T22:27:32Z")
My brother in practicality, please note that most if not all of the people who have used the phrase “hate speech” in this thread are using it sarcastically. “Possibly offensive” is how most people who take the discussion seriously are describing the speech in question. Just an attempt to not offend that most people outside of the extremes follow in their daily lives and nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/66 "2004-04-20T22:33:02Z")
(checking the Harley website) Hmmmm, a base 883 Sportster for $6500? That’s not much more than a tricked Italjet scooter and a lot less embarassing to ride. I wonder if I could get better mufflers? OTOH, I don’t have to worry about waking my neighbor with his 427 Nova. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/67 "2004-04-20T22:38:30Z")
Well, at least Harleys don’t shatter the battery after 10k miles anymore. Yeah, they’re an image bike, by and large these days… but, well, a Harley is… well, a Harley. Anyone got any reports on that new engine they put in? The one that’s not a V-Twin? I’ve heard the same thing about BMWs, by the way, and I’ve heard interesting things about Hondas… the larger ones. They’re okay, but if something goes wrong, you’re looking at seven kinds of hell. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/68 "2004-04-20T22:42:16Z")
> [@Bandanaman](#): > > Actually, **Marc** , the punchline is “the _position_ of the dirtbag”, but your joke is waaay funny nonetheless. > Bandaids, please…my sides are splitting. Oh well, I just heard it for the first time the other week and it provided me with some mild amusement. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/69 "2004-04-20T22:55:13Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > (checking the Harley website) Hmmmm, a base 883 Sportster for $6500? That’s not much more than a tricked Italjet scooter and a lot less embarassing to ride. I wonder if I could get better mufflers? OTOH, I don’t have to worry about waking my neighbor with his 427 Nova. **dropzone** , c’mere. … The Sportster is a _girl’s_ bike. Thought you should know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/70 "2004-04-20T23:22:20Z")
**Dammit, dammit, dammit.** > [@JuanitaTech](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Finagle > Hey, put a muffler on that piece of shit so you don’t deafen the entire neighborhood and you can play with whatever testosterone loaded two wheel deathtrap you feel like – it’s all the same to me. > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin > But a Harley is the only bike wide enough to support the gut of the average Harley owner. > > They’re funny because they’re true.[/homer] No, they’re not true. (D’oh!) Fighting ignorance means fighting stereotypes, folks. Not all bikers are the greasy, unwashed, drunk fat types you keep seeing. And not all Harleys are “neighborhood-deafening” loud. Take my dad’s, for example. I was raised in a biker family. My father owned a late 80’s Kawasaki and currently owns a '95 Harley Sportster, which is a lot quieter than, say, a Fat Boy, which is the loudest type on the Harley market last I checked. My godmother (who’s beautiful, fun, and looks as far from the biker sterotype as you can get) owns a custom-built Softail. My stepfather is currently saving up for a Road King. Granted, Japanese and European bikes are nice. They’re fast, cheap, and quiet. However, for whatever reason, some people prefer Harleys. Maybe it’s their shape (bigger, and less like a robotic wasp), maybe it’s a sense of patriotism for an American product (mostly- lots of Harley parts are actually manufactured in Japan). Hell, maybe people just like 'em because they make noise. It is possible. I know some of you will still smack down on bikers. Hey, your opinion, you’re entitled to it. But don’t automatically adhere to the stereotypes. The vibe I’m getting from some of you is that Harley bikers couldn’t possibly be intellectuals or thinkers or non-drinkers, and that’s simply not the case. Hells’ Angels is just the tip of the iceberg. Please correct me if I got any of my info wrong. I’m still rather angry and don’t really feel like checking for accuracy. LadySybil Straight-A Student, Sober Teen, Aspiring Teacher, and Biker. ---
**Author:** ![Bucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Bucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bucky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/71 "2004-04-20T23:50:07Z")
(I know, some noise can’t be helped, I’m ranting about what I would call voluntary noise. Construction will make noise. It’s not voluntary. Harleys don’t HAVE to make noise.) If there are quiet Harleys out there, I have not encountered them. The Harley fans I know, and I know quite a few, all enjoy what the call the “rumble” of the engine. I find it categorically annoying, as I do the over-pumped stereos (esp. the bass) of some car drivers. To bring this noise near me is an invasion of my privacy. It is also a health hazard, as noise pollution does more than just damage hearing. If you want to be loud, ear-threateningly loud, I think you have some obligation to: 1. Do it somewhere where you can’t bother those who don’t want your noise. This goes for your music, your engines, your untrained dogs, etc. 2. Avoid going deaf. So, if you ride your Harley up and down the same street, over and over again, I don’t care what else you do/are in your life. At that point in time, you are an asshole. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/72 "2004-04-21T00:04:32Z")
I agree, **Bucky**. I have, unfortunately, met bikers who set off car alarms just by roaring their engine…and are PROUD of this fact. During a biker rally in the early afternoon when everybody’s having fun, this can seem kinda funny. Leaving the bar my mom worked at around 1:30 AM purposely roaring the engine past sleeping people’s houses isn’t funny in the least. Hmm… Insight! Does anyone know if the Harley Corp. is planning or is currently selling devices to quiet the engine’s sound output? That might make bikers a little better-liked. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/73 "2004-04-21T00:17:31Z")
> [@LadySybil](#): > > \*\*No, they’re not true. (D’oh!) Fighting ignorance means fighting stereotypes, folks. Not all bikers are the greasy, unwashed, drunk fat types you keep seeing. This is true. In fact, given what a new Harley costs, i tend to assume that someone riding a new one is most likely some overpaid accountant or CFO trying to portray an image of working-class masculinity on his way to Starbucks. Not sure if that’s better or worse than the “greasy, unwashed, drunk, fat” stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/74 "2004-04-21T01:33:56Z")
Well, I’m not sure _what_ category I fit in Employed? Check. Washed? Check. Greasy? Uncheck. Fat? Uncheck. Love to ride, and will stop to help _any_ biker broken down on the side of the road, regardless of make, and also will wave to any biker, again, regardless of Harley or Rice? = Check. Y’all be safe, and have fun out there. And try to keep an open mind. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/75 "2004-04-21T04:19:03Z")
> [@Lazlo](#): > > The Sportster is a _girl’s_ bike. I know that. I also know I am secure enough in my masculinity to be able to pull it off. I’m also a beginner who can’t afford better. Hell, I don’t even know if my carpal tunnels would allow me to ride long enough to make it to work. But a GOOD thing about Harleys is that they seem to retain a lot of their value so I could learn the bad news and not lose much when I sold it. ---
**Author:** ![Juniper200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@Juniper200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juniper200)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/76 "2004-04-21T04:27:45Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Furthering the hijack: \ Are people from Afghanistan Afghanis? People from Afghanistan are Afghans; the Afghani is thir unit of currency. (Thanks, AP stylebook!) ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/77 "2004-04-21T04:29:46Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > It’s hard _not_ to bash Harleys. And I’m an American, and tend to gravitate towards 4-wheeled vehicles. Harleys are poorly built, poorly engineered, loud pieces of shit. Nonsense. I have worked on and ridden every nationality of bike. Modern Harleys are among the most reliable machines built. > [@](#): > > The most popular place to find “real bikers” is on the side of the freeway, staring blankly at a backfiring, mistimed engine that won’t get out of its own fucking way. > > Jap and Italian bikes however, are faster, smoother running, fast as hell and lots of them come with FI and electronic ignitions, so many of the disadvantages of having a carbed bike disappear. Most harleys are fuel injected and have electronic ignition. My 30 year old carb equipped harley has never left me on the side of the road. My previous harley was 50 years old…It did get a flat once, but other than that… > [@](#): > > I do however like custom bikes that **don’t** use the standard S&S Harley engine…how boring. Buell is the only exception there-the rice bike for America. 😃 > > Be honest with yourself and admit that most Harleys and the “real bikers” that ride them are bashable. > > Sam Be honest with yourself and realize that you dont know what the fuck your talking about. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/78 "2004-04-21T04:37:36Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Buying a Harley is only the beginning of a process that is pretty much compulsory if you want a machine that actually works in a civilised reliable and competant manner. > > Once you have made your purchase, you’ll want to replace the gas tank if you really are a ‘real biker’ because the range is poor, and the saddle is ugly and uncomfortable, so you’ll either need to toughen up and get chiropractor insurance, or replace it. What a silly comment. The gas tank on most harleys is larger than most aftermarket tanks…not smaller. My stock tank hold five gallons. > [@](#): > > Next you will probably fit a cissy bar, and the handle bars will not be quite right, then you might want to change to fork settings, or replace the forks completely so that you can fit perhaps a twin brake disc to get something slightly better than ‘pull and pray’ speed retardation. Most of them now have dual front disks and more than adequate braking. > [@](#): > > Actually, you would not need to upgrade the brakes if you leave the machine in its plain form as the engine does not generate a particularly large amount of power and given the original riding position you really would not wish to travel much above 60mph for extended periods since the breeze tries to splay your knees apart and it beomes vey tiring in pretty short order to hold it all in. not really…no…Its not gonna compete with a ducati speed wise, but its not meant to either. Much more comfortable to ride than a ducati though. > [@](#): > > However, if you do want even slightly passable performance than at the lowest end of the Harley tuning market, you will need Screamin’ Eagle cams and need to adjust and rejet the carbs appropriately, which of course will demand more fuel, which is why you needed to replace that poxy little gas tank in the first place. NO, again, they come with a really large gas tank. And perform quite well for their inteded purpose. > [@](#): > > Now the shockers and forks are not up to the job, the damping is now nowhere good enough to hold the wheels on the ground and prevent sideways creeping on cornering, which is fortunate because cornering is something Harleys are very poor at doing. More nonsense > [@](#): > > So now if you want more power, more stop, and a little bit of swervery, you are now looking at trying to improve ground clearance, which will mean differant exhausts - something you already needed when you tweaked the engine anyway. > You will also need to look at the footboards, and this is just the cheap end of the market, realistically you would need to either make changes to the ride height, or perhaps a few frame mods including a change to the fork geometry. The ground clearance problems were pretty well gone when the rubber mount frames came out in the early eighties. Mines old enough to drag, but its a 1974 model. > [@](#): > > When you have done all this, many of the changes will actually not be blindingly obvious, but they will be costly and you will still end up with half a ton of Milwaukee crap that corners like a pregnant sow on roller skates trying to balance a jello desert on it head whilst trying to take a new puppy for a walk on a lead. > > After completing the initial alterations you now are in a position to think about all the cool custimisations that were the whole point of you buying in to the Harley lifestyle, you now have a baseline Harley. This kind of drivel was silly when you posted it years ago. Ignorance and bigotry are such an ugly thing…Even when its relates to bikes. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/79 "2004-04-21T04:41:10Z")
Lest anyone think otherwise, I have nothing against any make of bike, and don’t think that harley riders are the only “Real Bikers” I learned to ride on brit and euro bikes. I have worked as a mechanic on Brit Euro and Japanese bikes. They have their good points and bad points, and all have their bad time periods and good time periods. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037/80 "2004-04-21T04:57:59Z")
Be nice to motorcyclists–you may be getting their organs someday. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-bashing-coldfire/241037.md?page=5)