# Harley moving some production outside of US due to EU tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 25, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698 "2018-06-25T12:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/1 "2018-06-25T12:57:10Z")
Their tariffs on US made bikes sold in EU went from 6% to 31%. > **[Harley-Davidson will move some production out of US after retaliatory tariffs](https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/25/news/companies/harley-davidson-motorcycles-tariffs-trump/index.html)** > > Harley-Davidson has been caught in the middle of a trade fight between President Trump and European allies. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/2 "2018-06-25T13:42:36Z")
Not shocking. [Factory locations](https://www.harley-davidson.com/gb/en/about-us/visit-us.html) for Harley Davidson that may see some job losses as America is Made Great: York, PA; Menomonee Falls WI; Kansas City, MO. Corporate headquarters in Milwaukee, WI. So workers of PA, WI, and MO - may notice. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/3 "2018-06-25T14:00:51Z")
The fact that Harley made this decision and announcement so soon after the announcement of additional tariffs makes me believe that they were already considering this decision, even if it was only “We’re not making much money on sales of bikes to Europe. Someone look into what would happen if we manufactured parts inside the EU.” Some of the basic data gathering had to have already been done. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/4 "2018-06-25T14:14:58Z")
[Considering they were already shutting down their KC plant and expanding overseas](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory), I’m pretty sure “tariffs” is an excuse to cover their asses.= ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/5 "2018-06-25T14:24:16Z")
Fuck those clumsy, oil-leaking suburban-dad-mobiles. (The stripped-down outlaw streetfighters get a pass.) Go with Honda! ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/6 "2018-06-25T14:30:01Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > [Considering they were already shutting down their KC plant and expanding overseas](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory), I’m pretty sure “tariffs” is an excuse to cover their asses.= But, from that same article, the KC jobs were shifting within the US. At a net loss of jobs, but they weren’t closing KC to move to France or Germany: > [@](#): > > Four months later and 500 miles away in Kansas City, Missouri, 800 workers at a Harley-Davidson factory were told they would lose their jobs when the plant closed its doors and shifted operations to a facility in York, Pennsylvania — a net loss of 350 jobs. Workers and union representatives say they didn’t see it coming. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/7 "2018-06-25T17:52:18Z")
WI gov Scott Walker is always getting his picture taken in Harley plants, and I think he even rides one (just for the image and the photo ops, I’m sure). He’s gotta be embarrassed, as he heads towards an election… ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/8 "2018-06-25T19:00:37Z")
…due to EU tariffs. Huh, why those stinkers! Just raising the tariffs out of the blue like that! What has gotten into them? If only someone with a really high IQ could have known this would happen! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/9 "2018-06-25T20:27:21Z")
Who knew that trade was so complicated? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/10 "2018-06-25T21:11:16Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > [Considering they were already shutting down their KC plant and expanding overseas](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory), I’m pretty sure “tariffs” is an excuse to cover their asses.= May well be, but remember Trump’s promise to those voters was not just that he’d refrain from doing stuff that would lose them their jobs, but also that he would do stuff that would increase the number of jobs. Which, if it had happened (pause for laughter) might have taken care of whatever problems were leading HD to want to close down production in the US in favor of expanding overseas. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/11 "2018-06-25T21:33:10Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Who knew that trade was so complicated? Exactly. And who knew that midwest farmers relied so much on the Chinese import of US soybeans. Midwest farmers knew that, and they voted for Trump anyway. It is to slap oneself in the face, if there were only a cute yellow way to express that… A-ha, found it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/12 "2018-06-26T00:06:52Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > [Considering they were already shutting down their KC plant and expanding overseas](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory), I’m pretty sure “tariffs” is an excuse to cover their asses.= Businesses that are already somewhat stressed for one reason or another are going to be the most immediately, and the most adversely, affected by new problems like tariff increases. Straw, camel, back. It’s not an “excuse”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/13 "2018-06-26T00:25:41Z")
Even if businesses are moving overseas to escape tariffs, do not necessarily expect voters and ordinary people to make the connection. If people already have it in their minds that “foreign scum” are thieving American jobs with the aid of greedy corporate American collaborators, moving overseas isn’t going to change the calculus. In fact it might actually hurt the companies that are moving jobs overseas, regardless of whether they were planning such a move for years. People are underestimating the power of a skilled populist to frame reality for people who are more than willing to have it framed for them. Remember, folks: he got elected president in the first place. He shouldn’t have even finished better than last place in a race for local dog catcher. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/14 "2018-06-26T00:32:59Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Exactly. And who knew that midwest farmers relied so much on the Chinese import of US soybeans. Midwest farmers knew that, and they voted for Trump anyway. It is to slap oneself in the face, if there were only a cute yellow way to express that… > A-ha, found it. > :smack: Trump will simply offer more subsidies to compensate for the lost business. Of course that depends on who controls the House, but it’s going to be hard for a House controlled by either party to make farmers suffer, when they’re going to make American consumers suffer with them. The real implications of all this is that Trump is threatening to destroy the modern international trade order. Because of these trade agreements, and because we’ve honored them for the past 10, 20, or 30 years, we’ve had mutual trust. What happens when we get to the point where there is distrust on multiple fronts? What happens when we’re mutually suspicious of each other and expecting reprisals rather than concessions? The order collapses. That’s what happens. And the collapse of that order has global economic and political consequences that, at present, cannot be foreseen. There’s a reason investors are increasingly anxious about their futures. They’re beginning to realize that some actors may end up acting irrationally. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/15 "2018-06-26T00:34:46Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > The fact that Harley made this decision and announcement so soon after the announcement of additional tariffs makes me believe that they were already considering this decision … OF COURSE they were. Any business not run by idiots is always evaluating options and different courses to take depending on possible events. If they were not evaluating and getting ducks in a row for this possibility once Trump was elected they would have been idiots. Thing is before this trade tit for tat the balance sheet as it was considered was coming out to keep production more here. Now? Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/16 "2018-06-26T01:32:11Z")
Why is this in “Elections”? For the record, I predicted this 20 years ago. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/17 "2018-06-26T10:33:49Z")
[Stock markets slip on trade policy fears](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/stock-markets-activity.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) (NY Times) ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/18 "2018-06-26T13:43:01Z")
Trump’s current delusion is that at the end of this, tariffs will go away all together and voila profits! That’s going to do wonders overall for American manufacturing since nowhere in the world has lower production costs … ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/19 "2018-06-26T13:45:29Z")
trump’s not offering subsidies to Harley. Quite the reverse - he’s taking about taxing them on their US production to punish them for buckling to those nasty Europeans: “Harley-Davidson will be taxed like never before!” > **[Trump threatens Harley-Davidson: If it moves operations overseas, 'they will...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/26/trump-says-harley-davidson-using-trade-tensions-as-an-excuse.html)** > > President Donald Trump says Harley-Davidson will be "taxed like never before" if it moves production overseas. He claims the U.S. motorcycle company was using increased trade tensions as an excuse to justify planned changes in manufacturing. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698/20 "2018-06-26T13:50:05Z")
[Trump is threatening Harley-Davidson now](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/06/26/trump-threatens-harley-davidson-with-taxes-like-never-before-and-eventual-collapse/?utm_term=.6146e8e3c725&wpisrc=al_politics__alert-politics--alert-economy&wpmk=1) > [@](#): > > President Trump on Tuesday threatened the iconic motorcycle company Harley-Davidson with severe taxes and predicted a public revolt that he said would eventually put the 115-year-old firm out of business, blasting the Wisconsin company for a plan to move some operations outside the United States as a way to avoid getting caught in the middle of an escalating trade war. > […] > He alleged that Harley-Davison’s Monday announcement that it would move some more operations outside the United States was long planned and that it was using Europe’s new tariffs as an excuse. He threatened to hit the company with an unspecified tax if it attempted to sell motorcycles in the United States that were made outside the country. The “sell motorcycles in the US that were made outside the country” bit seems misguided since, from HD’s statements, their plan was to build motorcycles for the EU market outside of the States to avoid the tariffs. I would assume HD is smart enough to not move operations outside the US just so they can pay US tariffs importing them back in. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harley-moving-some-production-outside-of-us-due-to-eu-tariffs/816698.md?page=2)