Based upon your atomic clock, when are our operators allowed to make or break connection with the Eastern grid?
You’ve been reading too much Wikipedia.
From context, Stranger On A Train was not talking about the base frequency but alluding to the presence of harmonics - thus the dirty power and the change in RMS voltage. (Clearly a perfect sine wave varying in frequency retains the same RMS voltage. Unless the load is reactive.)
In systems with significant reactive loads these harmonics can sometimes lead to issues that matter, and that is really the point of most of the conversation here. But as beaten to death, there is scant reason to imagine this library’s installation will be so beset, or that the inverter’s output will be anything like dirty enough to matter.
My first reaction was to think that this sales guy is just trying a new angle and selling unnecessary power factor correction capacitors. Sure, if there are some residual harmonic components from the inverter present, there will be some microscopic inefficiency that tweaking the power factor of the building might just make a measurable different to. But really, the sun would go cold before you saw a return on investment.
Averages may well be determined by NIST time as a baseline. But it is not necessitated down to 0.000000001 percent of accuracy for production. It is not necessary. Atomic clock synchronization of power production isn’t necessary, regardless of what you may feel, regardless of the capacity of the producer.
Where is your cite?
The question is about long term averages. Where long term is days. For decades the power has been synced to a time standard, and has provided such long term accuracy. Recently there has been argument about a reduction of accuracy, allowing the power generators more freedom, which may translate into slightly reduced running costs. The relaxation is partly justified with the huge reduction of timekeeping that is synced to the mains. But for decades households across the planet used clocks that were so synchronised. Any clock that was plugged into the mains was synced to it, whether analogue or digital. The long term average frequency ensured that year in, year out, those clocks were never wrong by more than a guaranteed margin. Except for power failures. Now our mobile phones get a sync from the cell, which is itself tied to an atomic clock. Or your computer runs an NTP client, which is similarly slaved.
Francis: If you say so, OK:smack:
Not sure what your point is but… Averages concerning power production are usually defined, at most, on a 24 hr. basis.
To my knowledge, there has never been a guaranteed clock performance statute implemented in my state.
It would make no sense it there were, if your state ties into the national grid. Any individual state creating any sort of frequency statue would risk becoming incompatible with the national grid. The only place where a frequency performance statute makes sense is at the national grid level, and therefore one would assume was a federal responsibility.
If you agree that NIST provides the baseline time, then we aren’t disagreeing at all. I said they calibrate against atomic clocks for their long-term average, and they do.
However, you also say that this isn’t necessary, but that’s not true. In the past 100 million seconds, there have been 6 billion cycles of the grid, +/- around 600 cycles. That’s 100 ppb accuracy, which is better than you can get with any standard timepiece.
You don’t need one. What matters is that they follow the NERC standard, which says that if a clock based on the grid frequency drifts more than N seconds from NIST time, then the Balancing Authority is notified, which orders a frequency offset to compensate until the deviation is under a threshold.
Sorry, but precision in this case is more important than accuracy.
Sooo? You can’t have it both ways.
Tell that to my oven clock.
Look, I get the point you’re making. They could do just as well calibrating against a cheap Casio quartz watch, as long as that watch was itself regularly set against NIST time. You don’t need any better than that in the short term–I haven’t said otherwise.
Assume what you will. To my knowledge, there is no Federal statute regarding such.
So, where do we go from here?
Understood. Thank you. However, the implication from my perspective was otherwise.
Understood. Thank you. However, the implication from my perspective was otherwise.
But for the fact that you said that generator producers were supplicant to atomic timepieces.
Ok, So what? Give a specific reference to your point, otherwise I may allude to a page (out of context) that might counter your intent.
Page one really:
So you have the Federal act establishing the authority, and you have the standard which the authority directs that time be maintained.
Very annoyingly the NERC website is unreachable right now. This might help understand the standard, and it ties the time correction back to NIST. http://www.nercipedia.com/active-standards/bal-004-wecc-02-automatic-time-error-correction/
Um…OK. Is there a point? I’m trying to work with you guys…