# Harris VP choice as she is the official presidential nominee of the Democratic Party for 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [July 21, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552 "2024-07-21T19:06:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/623 "2024-07-28T17:29:39Z")
DSeid’s link discussing former attorney generals includes Governors Roy Cooper of North Carolina and Andy Beshear of Kentucky. There’s something to be said for someone with solid political instincts and a track record from a southern swing state or an Appalachian red state. The median voter is a white person from the suburbs of an unfashionable city with less than a college degree. The case for these two _assumes_ that Harris has a good history with them. I guess my 3 bonus criteria are a) solid rapport, b) branding synergy, and c) manageable skeletons. Only the middle one can be readily evaluated by casual news readers, except to the extent that the overarching consideration, “Qualified for the Presidency” overlaps with a) and c). ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/624 "2024-07-28T17:47:22Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I guess my 3 bonus criteria are a) solid rapport, b) branding synergy, and c) manageable skeletons I’d say this is back to front. B and C here are among the most important if not the most important. VP choice is absolutely all about “vibes”, branding, and not having any skeletons. Its nothing to do with practical governing, VPs don’t do any governing. All that other stuff might be relevant for cabinet members but not VP. I don’t even care if Kamala hates him personally as long as they can do good job of looking like best buddies for the next 100 days. I would not want Shapiro governing, he is much too far on the right of the Democratic party for my taste. I have absolutely no problem with him being chosen as VP if it’s gonna help win Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/625 "2024-07-28T17:58:36Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > too far on the right of the Democratic party I know the school vouchers issue is considered that. His stated support for Israel’s right for self defense is a wedge issue to be sure, but not far right of the party. What other issues are you thinking of that are far from center left? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/626 "2024-07-28T18:00:23Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t recall any Democrat hating Pete. He might not have been their favorite, but I think he was at least respected by most. (I’m not advocating Buttigieg for VP, but I’d like to see him in a bigger role for the next 4 years. He’s quite impressive.) “Hate” is a strong word but Buttigieg is perceived as way too moderate by most progressives, and anyone who would be happy to see a gay candidate is already voting Democratic. On the subject of “cementing the base”; much of the progressive base (including myself) aren’t thrilled with Harris’ background as a prosecutor. I don’t think a significant number of people are going to not vote for her based on that, but it might not be a good idea to double down by adding a _second_ prosecutor to the ticket (Shapiro or Beshear). I think this is another good argument for Kelly or maybe Walz, whose record of teaching underprivileged kids is a much more appealing narrative for leftists. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/627 "2024-07-28T18:06:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even though Kelly may be better on things like border, I don’t think it will matter all that much to the undecideds. They aren’t going to want to hear about complicated solutions to the border problem. They want simple, slogan-based policies like those that the Republicans often come up with. For instance, they want easy policies like “Build the Wall, Deport Them All!”. Unless Kelly can come up with a catchy slogan that appeals to this group, I’m not sure that he will really sway that many undecideds with his border experience. I think what low-information undecided voters want is to be reassured that Fox News is wrong and Democrats don’t really want to open the border completely, but have a plan to address the issue in a less-than-completely-inhumane way. And it doesn’t matter what Kelly _says_ about the issue, it’s the fact that it’s a badass-looking white dude with a shaved head and a bunch of military decorations who’s saying it that will sway them. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/628 "2024-07-28T18:50:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I know the school vouchers issue is considered The school vouchers issue is the one that stood out, I think that alone puts him solidly on the right of the party. Being pro Israel kinda spans the political spectrum on the left at least (weirdly being pro Palestinian, less so, I can’t think of any strongly pro Palestinian Democrats who are not on the left of the party) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/629 "2024-07-28T19:05:34Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > The school vouchers issue is the one that stood out, I think that alone puts him solidly on the right of the party. I’m only having so much luck finding polling on this, specific to the targeted vouchers approach he advocates. What I find does not support your claim though. > **[Public Support Grows for Higher Teacher Pay and Expanded School Choice](https://www.educationnext.org/school-choice-trump-era-results-2019-education-next-poll/)** > > Results from the 2019 Education Next Poll > [@](#): > > in 2019, Democratic approval for low-income vouchers has climbed to 52%, with disapproval receding to 37%. In short, criticism by Democratic elites has not stopped grassroots support from increasing by 10 percentage points and opposition from declining by 6 percentage points since 2016. Not unanimity against the idea among D voters. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/630 "2024-07-28T19:20:47Z")
I think Mark Kelly short circuits some sexist lines of attack the GOP would otherwise try. I can see them claiming the VP pick is some kind of beta male simp, a Jason Orlean (Don’t Look Up) type who’d be lost on their own. With Kelly that dog won’t hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/631 "2024-07-28T19:44:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’m only having so much luck finding polling on this, specific to the targeted vouchers approach he advocates. What I find does not support your claim though. Not necessarily a reliable source: > **[Education Next - SourceWatch](https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Education_Next)** ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/632 "2024-07-28T19:47:07Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even though Kelly may be better on things like border, I don’t think it will matter all that much to the undecideds. They aren’t going to want to hear about complicated solutions to the border problem. They want simple, slogan-based policies like those that the Republicans often come up with. For instance, they want easy policies like “Build the Wall, Deport Them All!”. Unless Kelly can come up with a catchy slogan that appeals to this group… I don’t think he needs a catchy slogan to get the sort of voters that can still be gotten (the unaligned who somehow still have not made up their mind, presumably because they consider themselves apolitical and thus far have only really been exposed to the rhetoric, not the facts). I think Kelly, rightly or wrongly, may have enough _perceived_ credibility on border- and immigration-related issues to be heard out and listened to by people who, up to this moment, have only been exposed to the catchy slogans—of which the Republican Party has many—and who just see the idea of a border wall as an intuitive solution to a problem that they think exists, but in fact does not. Because to the extent undocumented immigration is a problem, the border wall doesn’t solve it. Nor do mass deportations. It’s it just a matter of telling that to someone who considers themself to be apolitical, it’s a matter of having them accept your explanation of the issue with no more evidence in the moment than a MAGA Mouthpiece might provide. And to be clear, I _do_ believe that the evidence establishes that MAGA policies are detrimental to the health of American society. But, as demonstrated by the last presidential debate, facts sound _at best_ no better than lies when they are just being spouted off rapid fire in front of the cameras and without any sort of independent fact checking. It all just comes down to who is _perceived_ as more credible. Not the actual truth value of their statements. Mark Kelly can, I believe, come across as credible when it comes to (1) border policies, (2) immigration, (3) gun control, and (4) defense, among other issues. To the extent those may be, rightly or wrongly, perceived weaknesses for VP Harris, Kelly helps to balance her out. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/633 "2024-07-28T19:48:18Z")
Strongly agreed and well said. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/634 "2024-07-28T20:42:13Z")
Okay. Published by Harvard but okay. I find [this specific to Texas.](https://uh.edu/hobby/txtrends/vouchers.pdf) Page 6 Democrats support targeted vouchers 44 to 34%. Not finding anything else in the time I’ve put to looking. Do you have any polling to share that supports a majority of Democratic voters and leaners are against targeted vouchers? Barring that I’ll rate the claim that such is far to the right of the Democratic Party as a statement without support. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/635 "2024-07-28T20:53:02Z")
I am certainly not the one making the claim that it is either in the mainstream of Democratic thought, or to the right of it. My commentary there is limited to impeaching that source, and saying that there are important Democratic constituencies that might find Shapiro problematic. Personally, I think that vouchers are absolutely the wrong way to go about repairing the ills of public education. But I also think it is a matter about which sincere, well-intentioned people can disagree, and beyond that is beyond the scope of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/636 "2024-07-28T20:53:33Z")
Illinois too? [The Invest in Kids Scholarship Tax Credit program has majority support among Illinois voters …](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000018b-408d-d77d-a38f-c7df7d550001&nname=illinois-playbook&nid=00000150-1596-d4ac-a1d4-179e288b0000&nrid=3fd82ed0-6af3-411a-b891-e9fff377892b&nlid=639163) ETA. Agreed that debating the idea is outside this thread’s scope, and that teachers’s unions are against it. Relevant to this thread is @griffin1977 ’s claim that it marks him far to the right of the party. I don’t think there is evidence for that. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/637 "2024-07-28T20:55:47Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Its nothing to do with practical governing, VPs don’t do any governing. Not typically, but they are 1 heartbeat away from doing all the governing, so we shouldn’t select a VP you really wouldn’t want in the office if things came down to it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/638 "2024-07-28T20:58:17Z")
Last comment I will make on this, because I think we’re getting pretty far afield, but I think the Illinois program is funded with private dollars, not tax dollars. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/639 "2024-07-28T20:59:24Z")
Way too far afield indeed. Anything else has to go to a new thread. **Moderating** ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/640 "2024-07-28T23:34:53Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Not typically, but they are 1 heartbeat away from doing all the governing, so we shouldn’t select a VP you really wouldn’t want in the office if things came down to it. Yeah but the odds of that (for a healthy 59 year old with no felony indictments) is low. I think all the contenders handily meet the “there is no way they should ever be in charge of the nuclear football” bar (for anyone who would consider voting for Harris that is). They are all established older, male, white, politicians, what your average American expects their presidents to look like. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/641 "2024-07-29T03:12:40Z")
Kelly or Beshear are the only ones that make sense. Walz is a distant #3. Shapiro is a terrible idea for reasons stated above AND he will cause major problems with the Arab/Muslim people in MI who will likely be crucial to a D win in that state. Kelly or Beshear. Michelle Obama and Whitmar are what I consider “Unicorn Options” since neither are interested. Mayor Pete, though I love him and think he is an amazing speaker, will cost Harris the election because there are still too many Democratic voters who are opposed to gay marriage, gay rights, trans rights, etc. Maybe we can handle him better in 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552/642 "2024-07-29T04:05:17Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Shapiro is a terrible idea for reasons stated above AND he will cause major problems with the Arab/Muslim people in MI who will likely be crucial to a D win in that state. Can we trust that vote, in any case? Since people were not voting Biden due to those issues- but of course trump would be infinitely worse. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Kelly or Beshear. Good choices. Walz would not be bad, but when i saw his name I said 'who?" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harris-vp-choice-as-she-is-the-official-presidential-nominee-of-the-democratic-party-for-2024/1004552.md?page=33)