# Harry Potter #7: (SPOILERS APLENTY): Now that you've read it... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2007, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249 "2007-07-18T11:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/521 "2007-07-25T19:08:21Z")
So, as Harry was getting angrier, and starting to use Cruciatus and Imperius curses, was anyone else expecting Voldy’s voice to echo inside his head “Good, I can feel your anger. It makes you stronger. Come, join the Dark Side.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/522 "2007-07-25T19:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Actually, in the King’s Cross chapter, Dumbledore explains that when he found Marvolo’s ring and saw the Resurrection Stone on it, he was so eager to use it that he put the ring on immediately without destroying the horcrux first (p. 719 in the American hardcover edition) [/QUOTE] Sorry, I must have missed that the first time around. I’ll look for it in the more leisurely re-read I’m treating myself to this week. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/523 "2007-07-25T19:13:39Z")
OMG. It took me forever to read through all 11 pages, and I actually did read through most of it. Ok, my two cents, though a lot of it’s been said: - I too hate the “Christ analogy” applied to every damn thing. Many stories both before and after Christ have people dying & coming back; oftentimes they have nothing to do with Christ at all. - Hedwig’s death, while sad, really woke me up to the fact that this was going to be a dark, dark book, with many deaths. I mean Hedwig was only the beginning, and if Rowling was willing to off that lovely owl, then who knows what would happen? - I hated Fred’s death. It was the only part of the story which really annoyed me. Why not Percy? But it would have been kind of trite, him coming back in time to die for his family or something. - The slow bits of the forest did bore me a bit, and I did yell at Harry a couple of times for being so angsty. Who wants to be a teen again? - Kreacher’s turnaround seemed pat but I liked it. - Lupin & Tonks! Lupin was one of my favorite characters, and now it seems like they were just set up for death. I would have preferred if Tonks died and Lupin became a very responsible father. - I agree with the people who say Voldemort was coming specifically to kill Harry and didn’t often go out just to kill children. He came because of the prophecy. - Hagrid is sent with Harry not necessarily because he has powers but because he is 100% faithful with no doubts. A weak point, to be sure, but I can excuse it. - I’m also tired of whenever someone uses a money-grubbing character people say “Oh, she must be talking about Jews!” - I loved Accio Hagrid! And whoa, did I miss something? Rowling married?! All in all I really liked the book and it was a satisfying ending… I plan to re-read the whole series now, slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/524 "2007-07-25T19:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] And whoa, did I miss something? Rowling married?! [/QUOTE] She married a surgeon soon after the books became super-popular. It probably would have stunned her beyond measure if a few years before Sybil Trelawney had told her “You will soon marry a surgeon… but be sure to sign a pre-nup to protect your wealth!” She’s had two babes with him to date, and an older daughter who was born soon after she began writing Potter. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/525 "2007-07-25T19:20:52Z")
[QUOTE=aktep] So, as Harry was getting angrier, and starting to use Cruciatus and Imperius curses, was anyone else expecting Voldy’s voice to echo inside his head “Good, I can feel your anger. It makes you stronger. Come, join the Dark Side.” [/QUOTE] No, but I actually was afraid that Voldy was going to torture Harry and Snape would suddenly turn on and kill his master. And I actually liked the killing off of 2nd tier characters in the final (Lupin, Fred, etc.) because it’s a lot more believable than Tolkien, who imho had far too small a body count for the good guys. I do wish she’d had a chapter between the 2nd Battle of Hogwarts and 19 Years Later that dealt with the funerals, arrests, restructuring/repair of Hogwarts and the Ministry, etc.. She’ll probably get lots of questions about afterwards issues when she goes on tour in the US in a few months (though she’s only doing 4 appearances). ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/526 "2007-07-25T19:38:34Z")
Yeah, Tolkien’s death count was… well, Denethor and Boromir and King Théoden… and a bunch of bad guys (Saruman, Gollum, Sauron). And a bunch of people like Ellodan and Elrohir, sons of Elrond, who had no lines. Or Prince Whoositz, who has no lines, who showed up at Minas Tirith at the last minute with a thousand horses, who also have no lines. Or a tree. Basically, either they die explicitly in service to the plot, or they were characters in whom the audience has little emotional investment. Oddly, I wasn’t bothered at all by Hedwig’s death. I thought, “Instant untraceable communication must be really inconvenient to the story line. I’ll bet Harry is going to be cut off from the outside world for a while, on his own.” Grieving over Hedwig would be like grieving over the transporters, shields, or warp engines of the _Enterprise_ every time they go down to demonstrate the situation is serious. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/527 "2007-07-25T19:41:36Z")
I forgot to mention how fucking funny I found this comment from Arnold: > [@](#): > > So that anytime a person said the word he, or who, or must, or not, or be, or named, the Death Eaters would have to show up and investigate? Yes, that would have been a lot of fun - for the readers! Not for Voldemort or his followers! > > Bellatrix: The Dark Lord will conquer his enemies in the end! He … (20 Death Eaters apparate, wands raised) Oh will you stop that! Cracked me right up! ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/528 "2007-07-25T19:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I do wish she’d had a chapter between the 2nd Battle of Hogwarts and 19 Years Later that dealt with the funerals, arrests, restructuring/repair of Hogwarts and the Ministry, etc.. [/QUOTE] I would really have liked that, too. I was surprised it wasn’t in there- quite a bit of the sixth book was devoted to the aftermath of Dumbledore’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/529 "2007-07-25T20:08:36Z")
You could call it “The Scouring of Ottery St. Catchpole,” and it’d be cut from the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/530 "2007-07-25T20:14:31Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] - I too hate the “Christ analogy” applied to every damn thing. Many stories both before and after Christ have people dying & coming back; oftentimes they have nothing to do with Christ at all. [/QUOTE] I’d agree with you and with others who have made this critical assessment were JK Rowling not Catholic and/or not Christian. If she were a Hindu, for instance, it would be appropriate to find fault with persons trotting out “Harry’s just like Jesus, only British, and a wizard, and snogging Ginny” but IIRC, in interviews while working on this book she specifically stated that she would incorporate aspects of her Christian faith into it. Ergo, the Christ analogy is appropriate. In my humble opinion, of course. YMMV and all that and you’re welcome to disagree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/531 "2007-07-25T20:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] I’d agree with you and with others who have made this critical assessment were JK Rowling not Catholic and/or not Christian. [/QUOTE] Oops. Make that Episcopalian, according to this [article](http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=3&id=46632006). I’ll still stand by my main point, though. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/532 "2007-07-25T20:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] Oops. Make that Episcopalian, according to this [article](http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=3&id=46632006). I’ll still stand by my main point, though. [/QUOTE] I s’pose I wasn’t really complaining so much about HP then, but the fact that every time someone dies and comes back in any kind of plot it’s a “Christ allegory”. My posts are disjointed because I actually had to make notes while I read the thread, it was so long! So I am answering people’s ongoing conversations and not so much the very first point made. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/533 "2007-07-25T20:35:35Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] I s’pose I wasn’t really complaining so much about HP then, but the fact that every time someone dies and comes back in any kind of plot it’s a “Christ allegory”. [/QUOTE] No worries. I, too, am frustrated when peoples of a certain faith attempt to spin literature to support their orthodoxy or religious viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/534 "2007-07-25T21:01:54Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] - I’m also tired of whenever someone uses a money-grubbing character people say “Oh, she must be talking about Jews!” [/QUOTE] I thought she was making fun of Swiss bankers, and I was filled with righteous indignation. Thank God it was only the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/535 "2007-07-25T21:04:08Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] - Hagrid is sent with Harry not necessarily because he has powers but because he is 100% faithful with no doubts. A weak point, to be sure, but I can excuse it. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t another reason be that the Death Eaters would dismiss Hagrid as a halfbreed blundering fool? They’d figure Harry would be sent with the baddest-ass of the Order, or anyone more competent than Hagrid. [off to check] Ah. Mad-Eye and his fake Harry get hit by Voldemort first, right as the seven pairs are breaking out. Kingsley Shacklebolt reports being chased by five Death Eaters, then Voldemort shows up but suddenly breaks off pursuing him and his decoy and disappears. Hagrid/real Harry have only four Death Eaters chasing them until Harry reveals himself with his disarming spell. So I’d assume that Harry went with Hagrid precisely because the Order figured any Death Eaters keeping watch for an escape attempt would discount Hagrid as the Harry-carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/536 "2007-07-25T21:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] So I’d assume that Harry went with Hagrid precisely because the Order figured any Death Eaters keeping watch for an escape attempt would discount Hagrid as the Harry-carrier. [/QUOTE] That’s how I read it too. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/537 "2007-07-25T21:15:32Z")
It is explicitly stated in the book somewhere that this is part of the plan - the most experienced aurors were expected to be attacked first, which is why Harry does not go with Mad-Eye Moody for example. ---
**Author:** ![slitterst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@slitterst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slitterst)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/538 "2007-07-25T21:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Wouldn’t another reason be that the Death Eaters would dismiss Hagrid as a halfbreed blundering fool? They’d figure Harry would be sent with the baddest-ass of the Order, or anyone more competent than Hagrid. So I’d assume that Harry went with Hagrid precisely because the Order figured any Death Eaters keeping watch for an escape attempt would discount Hagrid as the Harry-carrier. [/QUOTE] Harry Carrier? I would never have thought of Hagrid as the suicidal type. 😃 But seriously folks, you _know_ that the Death Eaters are going to go after this group. Why have Harry with them at all? Send off the six Harrys as decoys, then sneak the real Harry (under cover of his cloak) off to the Burrow while the DE are chasing everyone on their brooms? I really thought Mad-Eye and/or Kingsley would have been smart enough to think of something better. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/539 "2007-07-25T21:59:47Z")
Also because they know Hagrid isn’t an impostor. No true pureblood Death Eater would want to impersonate one, and Polyjuice doesn’t work for giant forms. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249/540 "2007-07-25T22:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=slitterst] Why have Harry with them at all? Send off the six Harrys as decoys, then sneak the real Harry (under cover of his cloak) off to the Burrow while the DE are chasing everyone on their brooms? [/QUOTE] Because any opponent worth their salt is going to leave a few people watching the house until they’re sure it’s empty? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-7-spoilers-aplenty-now-that-youve-read-it/412249.md?page=28)