# Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770 "2002-06-13T02:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jamye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@Jamye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamye)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/1 "2002-06-13T02:17:21Z")
I have recently moved from the US to Canada and was visiting the video store with a friend and since he had not seen Harry Potter and I enjoyed the movie very much, we decided to rent it. After we got home, I noticed that the title of the movie was “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone”, and throughout the movie, the stone was referred to as the “philosopher’s stone”. I looked into it and every piece of Harry Potter merchandise, including the movies, the toys, the books, the posters, and everything is marked 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone". I did some searching online and everything I can find has the book/movie listed under what I saw it as in the US, which is “Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s stone”. Why the difference? What is the big difference between the words “philosopher” and “sorcerer” that would cause the marketing machine to go through the expense of changing the dialogue in the movie and all of the related merchandise? -Befuddled in Vancouver ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/2 "2002-06-13T02:25:11Z")
I haven’t read the books, but, as I understand it, the English publishers of the books thought Americans would not understand the reference to the Philosopher’s Stone. Hence, the book is called “Sorceror’s Stone” in this country, but “Philosopher’s Stone” everywhere else. I hope this is the correct explanation. BTW, welcome to the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/3 "2002-06-13T02:55:03Z")
Yeah, that’s pretty much it, but renaming it Sorcerer’s Stone let all of the usual right-wing born again yobos screech and bleat about how it was all a plot to lure kids to Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/4 "2002-06-13T03:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jamye \* > **What is the big difference between the words “philosopher” and “sorcerer” that would cause the marketing machine to go through the expense of changing the dialogue in the movie and all of the related merchandise?** It wasn’t all that big a deal, really. My understanding is that, while they were shooting the movie, they would shoot two versions of any scene that referred to the stone by name: one with “Sorcerer’s” for America, one with “Philosopher’s” for everywhere else. It’s no big thing to film a scene twice with a little dialog change. Still, I think it’s rather goofy that Scholastic felt they needed to change the title for an American audience. But the decision was made long ago, and it’s water under the bridge now. A while back, someone posted a link to a web page containing lengthy, thorough comparisons between the US and British versions of the Harry Potter books, with all differences noted. Anyone remember where that is? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/5 "2002-06-13T03:04:36Z")
I think the phrase “philosopher’s stone” is also probably more common in Britain than in the US. At least, I’ve rarely heard it used. ---
**Author:** ![Jamye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@Jamye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamye)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/6 "2002-06-13T03:49:18Z")
From the web sources I was able to find, however, (Warner Bros UK), it was known as the Sorcerer’s stone in Britain as well. We have any Teemers in the UK that can verify this? If so it makes it quite a mystery why Canada is the only place with a philosopher’s stone. Also, considering the cost of filming (the film itself is ungodly expensive, not to mention salaries for crews, cast, etc) that it seems like filming two sets of dialogue for the relevant scenes would be redundant and costly. I can’t imagine that the change would garner more revenue for them (at least that would make up for the cost). -Still Befuddled in Vancouver ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/7 "2002-06-13T04:05:15Z")
My impression was that it was 'Philosopher’s Stone" in every English-speaking market _except_ the USA. Although we got some imported US “Sorceror’s Stone” merchandise here in Canada, the vast bulk of the merchandise, and the movie itself, used “Philosopher’s Stone”. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/8 "2002-06-13T04:13:38Z")
From [imdb.com](http://imdb.com) , about the movie “The Madness of King George”: > [@](#): > > The movie is based on a play by Alan Bennett called “The Madness of George III”. The popular story in the UK is that the movie’s title is different from that of the play because it was thought the American audience might mistake it for a sequel. While not wholly true, director Nicholas Hytner has confirmed that it was “not wholly untrue” and it is now widely held that this almost certainly did play a part in the titling of the film. In the UK it would be obvious to anyone that “George III” referred to King George III, but it was felt that elsewhere this might not be so clear and that adding “King” to the title might help. While this explains part of the title change, it glosses over the dropping of the “III”, adding renewed weight to the original theory. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/9 "2002-06-13T04:23:33Z")
It was “Philosopher’s Stone” in Australia too. I too read that “Sorcerer’s Stone” was only used in the US. (Sounds a little patronising to American audiences, actually.) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/10 "2002-06-13T04:33:57Z")
Web page comparing the 2: [http://www.harrypotterlessons.co.uk/philosopher2.htm](http://www.harrypotterlessons.co.uk/philosopher2.htm) From webpage: “When the Philosopher’s Stone was released in the US it was renamed the Sorcerer’s Stone… presumably to make it sound more magic orientated rather than philosophy orientated!” [Yahoo](http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020123.html) is more helpful: > [@](#): > > "The Harry Potter in Tayside site quotes Rowling’s explanation: > > Arthur Levine, my American editor, and I decided that words should be altered only where we felt they would be incomprehensible, even in context, to an American reader… The title change was Arthur’s idea initially, because he felt that the British title gave a misleading idea of the subject matter. In England, we discussed several alternative titles and Sorcerer’s Stone was my idea. > > Other sources offer slightly different reasons for the title change. The Harry Potter Lexicon says, “Scholastic thought that a child wouldn’t buy a book with the word ‘philosopher’ in the title.” ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/11 "2002-06-13T05:45:02Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **Jamye** Since this is about a movie and book, I’ll send this thread to our arts forum, Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@ShadowWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowWarrior)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/12 "2002-06-13T09:46:26Z")
brit doper here! It was indeed called ‘philosopher’s stone’ here, both in book and film versions. the change to sorceror really bugged me because the philosopher’s stone is a ‘true’ mythical artifact, searched for by alchemists over the eons for it’s supposed ability to turn lead into gold… a sorceror’s stone is … well, a rock belonging to any sorceror! an analogy for why this annoys me… it as if, in a film connected with arthurian legends, they decided to call his sword ‘Slasher’ instead of ‘Excalibur’… if you’re going to use a myth, at least try and get the words right… (don’t even get me started on Disney’s Hercules…) ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/13 "2002-06-13T12:08:45Z")
No please go on… What a bout Hercules. I haven’t seen it. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/14 "2002-06-13T12:22:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > \*\*From [imdb.com](http://imdb.com) , about the movie “The Madness of King George”: > > …The popular story in the UK is that the movie’s title is different from that of the play because it was thought the American audience might mistake it for a sequel. In the UK it would be obvious to anyone that “George III” referred to King George III, but it was felt that elsewhere this might not be so clear and that adding “King” to the title might help. While this explains part of the title change, it glosses over the dropping of the “III”, adding renewed weight to the original theory. > > \*\* Sadly, there’s plenty of truth to this viewpoint. For example, when _Malcom X_ came out on video, people always came into my store asking to see _Malcom 10_; some even wondered if they needed to see the previous nine. American people can be so stupid… But in any event, I can’t see why Philosopher was changed to Sorcerer in select markets. Sounds to me like wasted work; did they really think kids would be so put off by “Philosopher” that they wouldn’t buy a book with “Harry Potter” in the title? Hogwash - or Hogwarts, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/15 "2002-06-13T13:15:47Z")
Well, since it was the first book, kids didn’t know who Harry Potter was, so why would they bother? They see the word ‘sorceror’ and become intrigued. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@ShadowWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowWarrior)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/16 "2002-06-13T13:20:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kingpengvin \* > \*\*No please go on… What a bout Hercules. I haven’t seen it. \*\* well… no I won’t start here, because it would constitute a major hijack… suffice to say that the only relation between the film and the myths I studied in school was: 1. the main characters name. 2. He was the son of zeus. 3. The story is set in ancient greece. that’s pretty much it… the original story is much better, more tragic, MUCH more gory… I’ll stop now 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/17 "2002-06-13T13:27:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Carnage \* > \*\*Well, since it was the first book, kids didn’t know who Harry Potter was, so why would they bother? They see the word ‘sorceror’ and become intrigued. \*\* Yes, but it’s the movie that had the changed name, right, not the book? And when the movie came out, obviously, the book had long been out, and presumably all those who had read that first book were not put off by “philosopher’s” in the title. Or am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/18 "2002-06-13T13:48:01Z")
Dan, my husband’s copy of Harry Potter and the stone is question is titled _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_. We’re very much American. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/19 "2002-06-13T13:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Dan, my husband’s copy of Harry Potter and the stone is question is titled _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_. > > We’re very much American. \*\* Oh. Well, now I’m really confused. 😕 Does this mean that there are two book titles as well as two movie titles? I was under the impression that the “philosopher \>\> sorcerer” change was made for the movie, but perhaps not. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/20 "2002-06-13T14:11:04Z")
The book’s title was changed to _Sorcerer’s Stone_ in the US, and subsequently the movie title was also changed for the US. > [@](#): > > Also, considering the cost of filming (the film itself is ungodly expensive, not to mention salaries for crews, cast, etc) that it seems like filming two sets of dialogue for the relevant scenes would be redundant and costly. I can’t imagine that the change would garner more revenue for them (at least that would make up for the cost). **Jamye** , remember that in a major film, each scene is filmed dozens of times. Switching the words about in a few takes on a subset of the scenes doesn’t seem like such a big deal to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770.md?page=2)