# Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770 "2002-06-13T02:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/21 "2002-06-13T14:24:13Z")
Just backing up here: Yes in the US, the title is Sorcerer’s not Philosopher’s. In fact, I didn’t even know about the Philosopher’s thing until the movie was coming out. ---
**Author:** ![Jamye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@Jamye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamye)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/22 "2002-06-13T19:22:35Z")
Thank you guys so much for the info! I do appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/23 "2002-06-13T19:39:27Z")
So, now, American kids would be put off by the term ‘philosopher’? I’m with Shadow Warrior here. Um, so Arthur Levine and Scholastic think English 4th graders are running around reading Plotinus and discussing alchemy at a grade level far above their American counterparts? This is all just bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/24 "2002-06-13T21:37:07Z")
The book title was changed long before the film was made. The only reason the film title was changed was so that it matched up with the book in the different countries. Here in the UK it’s Philosopher’s Stone, and so it is everywhere but for the US. Like Max Carnage pointed out, this was the first book, so the publishers weren’t certain of sales like they are now. If their marketing people told them that ‘Sorcerer’s Stone’ would sell better than ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, they change it. As for filming different versions - well, British-made films do that all the time anyway. For example, they often film ‘network TV versions’ for the American market (Four Weddings and a Funeral had a lot of changes for this reason), so it’s not such a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/25 "2002-06-13T22:43:02Z")
Good grief. Being an American, & knowing what the Philosopher’s Stone is (it’s in my backyard, under some rubbish), I’m flabbergasted to learn that the actual title of Harry Potter (I) was … Anyway, I never knew this. That changes the whole sound of the title, as ShadowWarrior said. Either way, I’m not a Rowlingnik, never read the books, don’t plan on it–but that’s so weird. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/26 "2002-06-13T23:03:43Z")
I read the book several years ago, not knowing what the term “Sorcerer’s Stone” referred to. When I found out what it was, I thought “Why didn’t they just call it the Philosopher’s Stone?” Then, when I learned that “Sorcerer’s Stone” was invented for the Merkin market, I felt insulted. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/27 "2002-06-14T01:33:08Z")
In the UK, is a “philosopher’s stone” a well-known thing? Or does being a philosopher have some magical connotations? Because neither is the case in the US. The original title doesn’t sound magical at all to my American ears – just wondering if it does to the British ones. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/28 "2002-06-14T01:50:28Z")
Here’s my line-by-line Birtish/American comparison of the first book: [http://helenajole.freeservers.com/home/Harry.html](http://helenajole.freeservers.com/home/Harry.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/29 "2002-06-14T02:03:48Z")
In Australia (and I would dare to venture, in the UK too), philosopher has the same popular meaning as it does in the US. The book was called “the Philosophers Stone” regardless; a billion kids (I may be exaggerating at this point) ran out and bought it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/30 "2002-06-14T05:20:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShadowWarrior \* > \*\*brit doper here! It was indeed called ‘philosopher’s stone’ here, both in book and film versions. the change to sorceror really bugged me because the philosopher’s stone is a ‘true’ mythical artifact, searched for by alchemists over the eons for it’s supposed ability to turn lead into gold… a sorceror’s stone is … well, a rock belonging to any sorceror! > > an analogy for why this annoys me… it as if, in a film connected with arthurian legends, they decided to call his sword ‘Slasher’ instead of ‘Excalibur’… if you’re going to use a myth, at least try and get the words right… (don’t even get me started on Disney’s Hercules…) \*\* Does the Stone in the book turn lead into gold (it’s been a while since I’ve read the book)? Or does the Philosopher’s Stone have properties (that don’t involve turniing lead into gold) that are similar to what the one in the book has? If not, I think Sorceror’s Stone is a better name. I would think calling it Philosopher’s Stone is more like calling Arthur’s sword “Glamdring” instead of “Excalibur”. Regardless, I don’t think it’s all that important. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/41988e/32.png) [@Tequila\_Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/31 "2002-06-14T05:37:08Z")
Quote from my Merken copy \*" The stone will transform any metal into pure gold. It also produces the Elixir of Life, which will make the drinker immortal." \* So the stone can transform lead as well as any other metal into gold, apparently. I did feel a little under-estimated by the publisher and the name change. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/32 "2002-06-14T07:03:46Z")
I recall vaguely my early Dungeons & Dragons books containing a listing for a “philosopher’s stone” in the reference section as a magical item. I don’t remember the D&D version of the stone having any “elixir of life” properties, but my memory could be faulty. As I recall, the stone was ordinary in outward appearance. The stone contained a liquid that could be used to turn metals such as lead or iron into gold. As I recall, the stone’s powers were limited; when the liquid was used up, the stone was just a plain ol’ rock. Someone who has a DM’s guide or Unearthed Arcana can correct me. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770/33 "2002-06-19T12:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by AWB \* \*\*From [imdb.com](http://imdb.com) , about the movie “The Madness of King George”: > > The movie is based on a play by Alan Bennett called “The Madness of George III”. The popular story in the UK is that the movie’s title is different from that of the play because it was thought the American audience might mistake it for a sequel. While not wholly true, director Nicholas Hytner has confirmed that it was “not wholly untrue” and it is now widely held that this almost certainly did play a part in the titling of the film. In the UK it would be obvious to anyone that “George III” referred to King George III, but it was felt that elsewhere this might not be so clear and that adding “King” to the title might help. While this explains part of the title change, it glosses over the dropping of the “III”, adding renewed weight to the original theory. > > * * * > > \*\* [The IMDB is not infallible.](http://www.snopes2.com/movies/films/george.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-philosophers-stone/113770.md?page=1)