# Harry Potter and the Amulet of Lax Educational Standards (spoilers through book 6) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344 "2005-07-20T20:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/41 "2005-07-21T17:03:50Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > My personal theory is that we are only viewing the upper stratum of wizard society. Like in the victorian era, the upper class was rigidly seperated from the working class and incredibly insular. It’s not just a class thing, it’s a species thing. In HP’s world you have other sentient beings (often carrying out roles that the lower orders do in human society). These include the house elves, the goblins that run the banking system, the dementors and the centaurs. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/42 "2005-07-21T17:26:28Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > My personal theory is that we are only viewing the upper stratum of wizard society. Like in the victorian era, the upper class was rigidly seperated from the working class and incredibly insular. It was considered impolite to even acknowledge the existance of a lower caste and people sort of lived in a polite fiction where things were just assumed to be that way. > > This would make the entire situation make a lot more sense. People like Stan Shunpike as well as most people riding on the night bus would belong firmly in the lower class and probably never went to hogwarts. Instead, they attended some sort of local wizard primary school to gain a rudimentary education and then worked in menial jobs for the rest of their lives. Except it’s been stated that Hogwarts accepts _any_ witch or wizard - anyone with magic powers can attend. And it doesn’t cost anything; from Dumbledore’s conversations with baby Voldemort, they even provide money for supplies for poor students. There’s no reason why Hogwarts wouldn’t represent a full cross-section of wizarding society, with the exceptions of nutso loners like Morfin and perhaps some kids whose parents send them out of the country to school for political reasons (if indeed Draco’s parents considered sending him to Durmstrang.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/43 "2005-07-21T17:28:09Z")
> [@The Peter Files](#): > > I like the idea of New Orleans, or somewhere in the area, perhaps outside a smaller town such as Thibodeaux, because the school cannot actually be in a real city. > > The only problem is that I sort of imagine the country having snow. > > For me to have the isolation you need that might mean Wisconsin, Michigan, Maine (though the snow in Maine might be too long and too deep). > > Having it near one of the Great Lakes would be fun but too hard to explain. > > Hidden in an unplottable part of the redwood forest might also be a great locale. In LA, you could do that stuff openly…who would _notice_? Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/44 "2005-07-21T17:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Like why they didn’t just kill the Death Eaters last time? After all, they’re murderers and terrorists Apparently they did away with some of them. Personally, I don’t care if it \*is \* called one of the Unforgivable curses, the Imperius Curse would have many of Voldemort’s secrets right out. No matter how secret a web he has, the Big V can’t entirely cut off contact from Death Eater to Death Eater. And seriously, if the bloody Dark Mark is all over the arms of these guys, why doesn’t the Ministry just go around checking everyone’s body? There has to be a way to bring out the Mark even if it’s hidden! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/45 "2005-07-21T18:36:32Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Except it’s been stated that Hogwarts accepts any witch or wizard - anyone with magic powers can attend. And it doesn’t cost anything; from Dumbledore’s conversations with baby Voldemort, they even provide money for supplies for poor students. There’s no reason why Hogwarts wouldn’t represent a full cross-section of wizarding society, with the exceptions of nutso loners like Morfin and perhaps some kids whose parents send them out of the country to school for political reasons (if indeed Draco’s parents considered sending him to Durmstrang.) True. One has only to look at the Weasly’s after all. They are about as poor as a family can be, yet every one of their kids went to Hogwarts. I think Shalmanese is wrong about the class thing…at least in the way s/he is talking about it (i.e. ECONOMIC class). There are classes of course and a whole caste system in the wizard world, but it has little to do with economics (it does have SOME to do with it though just looking at the Malfoy backstory) and more to do with how powerful the wizards abilities are. Then it goes in decending order to how pure the blood is (I wonder if this obsession with pure blood would go over big in, say, the US wizard community where we don’t tend to give a shit about blood, but where economics might factor in more), if they have no ability but were still born to wizard families (i.e. squibs), then it decends to muggles/non-human sentient creatures. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/46 "2005-07-21T18:51:58Z")
Regarding the question of whether Hogwarts charges tuition, perhaps it’s like one of the military academies in the US, where the tuition is free but the graduates are expected to serve for several years after. Most of the jobs the students were thinking of taking seemed to be civil service jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/47 "2005-07-21T19:26:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (I wonder if this obsession with pure blood would go over big in, say, the US wizard community where we don’t tend to give a shit about blood, but where economics might factor in more) Au contraire, what J.K. Rowling is saying is relevant to racism in both the UK and in the US, where colour of skin is still of social importance. I have no doubt that all the stuff about “Pure Bloods” and “Mud Bloods” has a lot to do with White vs. Black in the UK, which is not that different from White vs. Black in the US. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/48 "2005-07-21T19:34:24Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Au contraire, what J.K. Rowling is saying is relevant to racism in both the UK and in the US, where colour of skin is still of social importance. I have no doubt that all the stuff about “Pure Bloods” and “Mud Bloods” has a lot to do with White vs. Black in the UK, which is not that different from White vs. Black in the US. See, and I always saw it as the seemingly endless obsession of the English about the quality of ones ‘blood’, i.e. the commoners vs the aristocracy/nobility. The racism part that JKR was working in I always saw as the way the wizards look down on/enslave non-human sentient races. So, we have (at least this is how I always read it…YMMV) a class/caste system with wizards at the top and a racist system where wizards are superior to and therefore can do as they like to non-human races. I figure the last book will resolve both of these issues, though my guess is the focus will be on showing wizards that their behavior towards non-humans needs to change and grow (thus taking on the racist issues you brought up). As I said, this is strictly MY interperatation, without benifit of reading through lots of HP threads or going on mugglenet (or whatever its called). I’m probably way out in left field here. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/49 "2005-07-21T19:39:39Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Maybe she started having an uncontrollable urge to drink coffee. Sorry to trouble you, but could you please give me an explanation of this joke? It may well save me the embarrassment of beginning to giggle in church, or something. Feel free to put it in a spoiler box, of course. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/50 "2005-07-21T19:50:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry to trouble you, but could you please give me an explanation of this joke? It may well save me the embarrassment of beginning to giggle in church, or something. Feel free to put it in a spoiler box, of course. I forgot that **Bosda** actually started the thread (which is probably why I got the high-five), but [here’s the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=326113). Basically, it’s the latest antics of those wacky small-town Utah Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/51 "2005-07-21T19:51:37Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > See, and I always saw it as the seemingly endless obsession of the English about the quality of ones ‘blood’, i.e. the commoners vs the aristocracy/nobility. Yes, I think it can work both ways. The social structure in the UK involves both aristocracy vs. commoner and white vs. black (where “black” can mean having ancestors coming from South Asia or from Africa). The average reader’s everyday experience in the UK is more likely to involve white vs. black, rather than aristos vs. commoners, however. ---
**Author:** ![NwYrkGrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b487fb/32.png) [@NwYrkGrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NwYrkGrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/52 "2005-07-21T19:57:05Z")
J.K. Rowling states on her website that before attending Hogwarts, wizard children are home schooled. Besides the series is not about education so its not really prudent what happened educationally before Hogwarts. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/53 "2005-07-21T19:58:44Z")
I also now realize that the joke would have been even funnier had I left out the qualifier. Oh well. Can’t win 'em all. (Plus, I still have the props I got from **Polycarp** way back in the CSI: Hogwarts thread.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/54 "2005-07-21T20:06:09Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I forgot that **Bosda** actually started the thread (which is probably why I got the high-five), but [here’s the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=326113). Basically, it’s the latest antics of those wacky small-town Utah Mormons. Oh. Now I remember. Yes, a very good shot. ---
**Author:** ![PerditaX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@PerditaX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PerditaX)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/55 "2005-07-21T20:46:08Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > In LA, you could do that stuff openly…who would _notice_? Hollywood. I’ve always thought that the logical place for a Wizarding school in the US would be either Roswell NM or Area 51 in Nevada. Strange lights in the sky that move in abnormal ways? Quidditch practice! not to mention levitation spell practice, Weasley’s Wizard Wheezes, etc. It explains a lot, doesn’t it? As to the cost of Hogwarts, I always assumed that it did charge tuition. When Harry first gets his letter, Uncle Vernon is adamant that he won’t pay for it. Hagrid’s response wasn’t that there wasn’t a charge, but that Harry’s parents had left him money in Gringott’s. I’m figuring that wizards start saving when their kids are born like muggles save for college - and that a lot of why Weasleys are so poor is that they have Hogwarts tuition for seven kids! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/56 "2005-07-21T21:43:16Z")
I think that every young wizard or witch is given the CHOICE of attending Hogwarts–whether they do or not depends on them. I doubt that Stan on the Knight bus attended–or Mudungus, for that matter. I assumed that there was at least some nominal fee, with a scholarship fund for indigent students. IOW, anyone who qualifies is not turned away, but most pay something. I guess I always assumed that the students were of the upper class–you can be of “good blood” and still be as poor as church mice. Sorry if that is classist-I don’t think I am, but I took HP to be in the vein of Narnia etc. **Rysto** –I didn’t mean it that way. I meant I wondered if Hermione accidently had done magic like HP and what her experience was. **asterion** --too funny! I hope it was a double latte. I have a question: why are the wizards all celebrating Christmas? It strikes me as bizarre, to say the least…now Saturnalia, I’m all over. But Christmas? IMO, the logical place for a wizarding school in US is Massachusetts-in the Berkshires somewhere. Either there or Appalachia, where some say that old timers have the gift of Sight… **Guin** --I am rereading book 5 and I just read that bit about Ravenclaw and Hermione! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/57 "2005-07-21T22:40:17Z")
> [@PerditaX](#): > > As to the cost of Hogwarts, I always assumed that it did charge tuition. When Harry first gets his letter, Uncle Vernon is adamant that he won’t pay for it. Hagrid’s response wasn’t that there wasn’t a charge, but that Harry’s parents had left him money in Gringott’s. I’m figuring that wizards start saving when their kids are born like muggles save for college - and that a lot of why Weasleys are so poor is that they have Hogwarts tuition for seven kids! Then you didn’t read the sixth book, where we clearly see Dumbledore tell baby Voldemort that the school doesn’t charge. I’d figured as much before now, since there was never a mention of it (Harry didn’t, for instance, get money out to pay tuition on his first trip to Diagon Alley with Hagrid. Hagrid’s discussion of his parents’ money was clearly only in reference to school supplies, which _do_ cost - though, as Dumbledore points out, there’s a fund to help poor students with that.) The Weasleys managed to send 7 kids to the place, and plenty of other poor folks have managed - Colin and Dennis Creavey’s dad is a Muggle, and a milkman to boot - he can’t have had enough money to pay for a private education. There’s no doubt that any young witch or wizard who wishes to attend Hogwarts can do so. How else would the orphan Voldemort have done it? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/58 "2005-07-21T23:46:46Z")
> [@PerditaX](#): > > I’ve always thought that the logical place for a Wizarding school in the US would be either Roswell NM or Area 51 in Nevada. Strange lights in the sky that move in abnormal ways? Quidditch practice! not to mention levitation spell practice, Weasley’s Wizard Wheezes, etc. It explains a lot, doesn’t it? Why not both (or more). I can see one in Salem (as we’ve been told), Hollywood-ish, Roswell (NM), and perhaps somewhere in the Black Hills (focus on Native American magic?) ---
**Author:** ![PerditaX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@PerditaX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PerditaX)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/59 "2005-07-21T23:47:19Z")
Ahem. I did read the sixth book. I was certain that I’d read in book 2 that Tom Riddle was some sort of scholarship boy. Apparently, I was mistaken. Stuff happens. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344/60 "2005-07-22T01:58:57Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > It’s not just a class thing, it’s a species thing. In HP’s world you have other sentient beings (often carrying out roles that the lower orders do in human society). These include the house elves, the goblins that run the banking system, the dementors and the centaurs. True, wizards do use many forms of non-human species for specialised jobs. But there is still need for the McJob in the wizarding world. Shop assistants at Diagon alley, night bus drivers etc. These all have to be filled by humans. > [@Excalibre](#): > > Except it’s been stated that Hogwarts accepts _any_ witch or wizard - anyone with magic powers can attend. And it doesn’t cost anything; from Dumbledore’s conversations with baby Voldemort, they even provide money for supplies for poor students. There’s no reason why Hogwarts wouldn’t represent a full cross-section of wizarding society, with the exceptions of nutso loners like Morfin and perhaps some kids whose parents send them out of the country to school for political reasons (if indeed Draco’s parents considered sending him to Durmstrang.) Yes, but that’s just marketing double speak. Technically, Harvard accepts anyone too without regard for income yet overwhelmingly, the people there are from the upper echelons with a few poor people sprinkled through for diversity. While they may claim to be open to anyone, the sad fact of the wizarding world is that family and resources matter. Wizards who have been intensively pampered sinch childhood are more likely to fully exploit their magical aptitude. I still maintain that the reason for so many inconstancies is that the entire wizarding world we’ve been exposed to is built on the polite fiction of egalatarianism but everyone knows that the high living standards they enjoy relies on ruthlessly exploiting the prolatateriat worker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-amulet-of-lax-educational-standards-spoilers-through-book-6/313344.md?page=4)