# Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 discussion thread(spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952 "2011-07-14T00:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/261 "2011-07-22T16:25:03Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I saw it last night, loved it, and have never read any of the books. I wasn’t confused really - I knew Lupin and his wife were pregnant from the last movie. > > One thing that did confuse me, which probably would only hapen to someone who hadn’t read the books: When Draco’s mother is holding Harry Potter and says “Draco - is he alive?” I thought that was really Draco she was talking to - adderssing him deliberately - and she was asking if Harry was still alive. I thought Draco and Harry had used the potion that makes them look like other people, and when the Malfoys were running away, it was really Harry running away with them. I have talked to many people I know who never read the books, but saw the movies. No one I know thought that. That would really change the whole meaning of the movies if Draco killed Voldemort, and Harry ran away. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/262 "2011-07-22T16:34:46Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > O Lord–that is so helpful. Thanks! Allegiance does not indicate possession. Helpful to know. > > But that leaves more questions than it answers. To wit: that means that Ron and Harry et al gained the allegiances of various adult wands throughout their time at Hogwarts, no? I’m sure they disarmed more than Draco. My take is that it is really only the Elder Wand that tracks its master that way. Your wand will pretty much always be your wand (with some exceptions), but the Elder Wand follows who won it in battle. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/263 "2011-07-22T16:44:26Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > Timeline of the Wands: > > Elder Wand: > Dumbledore gains allegiance w/ defeat of Grindewald. Carries wand for fifty-odd years. > Draco disarms Dumbledore, gaining allegiance but not possession of the Elder Wand. > EW is buried w/Dumbledore. > Voldemort steals EW from Dumbledore’s tomb. > Harry disarms Draco at Malfoy Manor, gaining allegiance of EW. > Voldemort attempts to kill Harry using EW and fails, and Harry obtains possession as well as allegiance of the wand. > > Draco’s Wand: > Draco is chosen by wand in Ollivander’s shop when he is 11. Carries the wand for seven years. > Harry disarms Draco at Malfoy Manor, gaining allegiance of Draco’s Wand. > Uses Draco’s wand from that point forward. > > So Harry is master of both wands in the final battle. His plan is to return the EW to Dumbledore’s tomb, and if he dies undefeated the power of the EW will be broken. Even if he is defeated, it is unlikely the owner will ever know. I know that this is correct, so I’m not disputing anything, but Harry Expelliarmused TONS of wands. So much so that it became his trademark. Seriously, there must be hundreds of wands with mixed up allegiances. Even just at Hogwarts the wands should be thoroughly mixed up after a defense against the dark arts class. Yet no one notices until Ollivander explains it deep into Book 7. Sigh. ETA: I really should finish the new posts before writing stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/264 "2011-07-22T17:19:38Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > I have talked to many people I know who never read the books, but saw the movies. No one I know thought that. That would really change the whole meaning of the movies if Draco killed Voldemort, and Harry ran away. I was unclear - at the time I didn’t think Draco would kill Voldemort and Harry would run away - I thought the switch would be revealed at the last second, as Harry-as-Draco revealed himself and killed Voldemort. Ten minutes later I dismissed the whole thing, but at the time I thought “That’s Draco-as-Harry!” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/265 "2011-07-22T18:37:16Z")
> [@Danger! Danger! Do Not reveal your birthday to ChrisCTP!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-danger-do-not-reveal-your-birthday-to-chrisctp/2322/13): > > No bridges at all in the book, so we’ll have to blame David Yates rather than JK Rowling. Fair enough. “Looks cool” trumps “makes sense”, at least to moviemakers. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > But that leaves more questions than it answers. To wit: that means that Ron and Harry et al gained the allegiances of various adult wands throughout their time at Hogwarts, no? I’m sure they disarmed more than Draco. Yes, as I said, this wand allegiance thing is a giant ass pull on the part of Rowling. She didn’t think it up until book 7 because she wanted a means of subverting the power of the Elder Wand, so she could put the most powerful wand in the hands of the most powerful and evil Wizard and have Harry win. He wins because the EW likes him better. [QUOTE=eleanorigby] Neville had the hat (I believe he was wearing it in the book), and that is the swords portkey, so to speak. [/QUOTE] > [@DesertDog](#): > > He was, in the book. After his defiant speech, Voldy summoned the hat from Dumbledore’s office, jammed it on Neville’s head, then ignited it. Painfully. It would have been better than Neville wandering around in a daze, hat in hand… Someone mentioned the sword showing up vs Neville having the sword hidden in the Sorting Hat. When Neville finds the Hat, he is looking it over and sees something shiny in it. That is the Sword. He was then waiting for the right time to pull it. It didn’t come to him at the moment he pulled it, but at the moment he picked up the Sorting Hat. > [@pancakes3](#): > > i didn’t think normal wands switched allegiances - only the EW. and when harry was talking about liking malfoy’s better, he was just being a dick. As previously quoted, yes all Wands are subject to changing allegiances. Don’t look behind the curtain, there’s just an old man there, nothing important. I thought Harry was just being a dick about liking Malfoy’s wand better, but then he didn’t fix his old wand (that we saw), so…? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/266 "2011-07-22T18:49:58Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Yes, as I said, this wand allegiance thing is a giant ass pull on the part of Rowling. She didn’t think it up until book 7 because she wanted a means of subverting the power of the Elder Wand, so she could put the most powerful wand in the hands of the most powerful and evil Wizard and have Harry win. He wins because the EW likes him better. I don’t recall us ever seeing a true duel before _Deathly Hallows_ (outside of the one where Priori Incantatem comes into play in _Goblet of Fire_). All the duels we’ve seen other than these have been demonstrations or exercises, which certainly would not be sufficient to change a wand’s allegiance. I don’t consider (and don’t see how one could consider) all the fighting and whatnot in _Order of the Phoenix_ to be duelling, and even if I did, we don’t know what happened to the wands in those cases. Did Sirius’ wand turn loyal to Bellatrix? Who knows? In short, I think there’s a difference between “a giant ass pull” and “not writing yourself into a corner.” ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/267 "2011-07-22T20:06:44Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > \*\*I don’t recall us ever seeing a true duel before _Deathly Hallows_ \*\*(outside of the one where Priori Incantatem comes into play in _Goblet of Fire_). All the duels we’ve seen other than these have been demonstrations or exercises, which certainly would not be sufficient to change a wand’s allegiance. I don’t consider (and don’t see how one could consider) all the fighting and whatnot in _Order of the Phoenix_ to be duelling, and even if I did, we don’t know what happened to the wands in those cases. Did Sirius’ wand turn loyal to Bellatrix? Who knows? > > In short, I think there’s a difference between “a giant ass pull” and “not writing yourself into a corner.” Dumledore v Voldemort in the ministry, but I’m not sure there was a clear winner there. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/268 "2011-07-22T20:37:09Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Dumledore v Voldemort in the ministry, but I’m not sure there was a clear winner there. Good catch, and I agree. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/269 "2011-07-22T23:13:02Z")
although… with it being dumbledore’s phoenix’s tail… i think it may put a bit of an advantage to dumbledore. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/270 "2011-07-23T00:55:03Z")
Harry being a dick is way out of character, so I doubt it. I never read it that way, myself. If he had returned Draco’s wand to Draco, Harry would have been left wandless and therefore defenseless, so bad move on his part–of course he wouldn’t just turn the wand over. Plus, the wand had chosen him as Olivander said. I like that Harry saved Draco in the end. Tom Felton made it look like Draco really wasn’t sure about his family’s choices, but that his loyalty was to them, no matter what. Very Ashley Wilkes, really (in a way). I don’t mind the bridge being blown up. This is the first movie where I minded Hogwarts changing–a boathouse? Seriously? Whatever… Nitpick aside, I think this last movie was quite good. None of them will ever be the same as the book–they can’t be. What I do now (and perhaps most people do, too) is use the actors and settings in my head and create the scenes as I read. Very satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/271 "2011-07-23T01:03:28Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I don’t mind the bridge being blown up. This is the first movie where I minded Hogwarts changing–a boathouse? Seriously? Whatever… I was wondering about this…does Hogwarts actually change significantly from movie-to-movie? Is there somewhere that documents the changes? For some reason, I’m oddly curious about this. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/272 "2011-07-23T01:08:58Z")
With all the wand allegiances, it wouldn’t be known who the wand was loyal to unless the winner took and used the loser’s wand, which never seemed to happen. Whatever duels there were, the wands stayed with their owners. Harry’s expelliarmus expertise might be why he seemed to get exponentially more powerful though, so many wands refusing to work against him!😃 Also, it was noted in book one that Ron’s wand (a hand me down) didn’t work as well for him as when he got his own wand at the end of book two. Which was confirmed by Ollivander’s statement in that the wand chooses the wizard. The seeds of the idea were there to be turned into the EW myth, not that I think she had actually planned it in that detail. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/273 "2011-07-23T01:17:13Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I don’t mind the bridge being blown up. This is the first movie where I minded Hogwarts changing–a boathouse? Seriously? Whatever… Don’t the first-year students ride boats from the train station to the school at the beginning of the year? So it’s quite reasonable for the school to have a boathouse. ---
**Author:** ![RachelChristine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RachelChristine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RachelChristine)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/274 "2011-07-23T01:19:59Z")
Took my not-quite-six year old daughter today. She is a huge fan, and is planning a Harry Potter birthday party in a few weeks. While we did have several hide your eyes parts, and overall she loved it. But during the Pensieve scene, when she realized that Harry was actually a horcrux, she started sobbing very loudly. I thought we were going to have to leave the theatre, but I pulled her on my lap and told her that it would all work out, I had read the books so I knew. She calmed way down and was able to make it through the rest. Then, like a true little kid with random ideas, says her favorite part was getting to see everyone’s kids when they grew up. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/275 "2011-07-23T02:26:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Don’t the first-year students ride boats from the train station to the school at the beginning of the year? So it’s quite reasonable for the school to have a boathouse. Sure, there’s a boathouse. A boathouse that has never been seen (even when the lake has been featured as in book 4), never used, never referred to, never–well, you get my point. Yes, Hogwarts has changed significantly over the years. In the first film, Hagrid’s cottage is quite close to the castle. It moves for the second movie, and then again for the 3rd (I think). Some sets didn’t change: the main hall and its magical ceiling, the boy’s dorm (but I think the center stove was added in the later movies). AD’s office remained the same. The various towers and their rooms did change. I’m ok with them changing, just the boathouse jarred me a bit. No biggy. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/276 "2011-07-23T02:45:02Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Yes, Hogwarts has changed significantly over the years. In the first film, Hagrid’s cottage is quite close to the castle. It moves for the second movie, and then again for the 3rd (I think). Ah, thanks. I thought Hagrid’s house moved quite a bit further away than I had remembered… ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/277 "2011-07-23T02:47:56Z")
vincent crabbe and gregory goyle exchange physical descriptions from time to time. too bad the actor goyle didn’t make it to DH2. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/278 "2011-07-23T02:50:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Don’t the first-year students ride boats from the train station to the school at the beginning of the year? So it’s quite reasonable for the school to have a boathouse. the movie also made it seem like there were house rowing teams. the books do mention lake activities, mostly lounging around the shore, tickling the giant squid, occasionally swimming. bet the giant squid made it more fun for the rowers. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/279 "2011-07-23T02:53:40Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Yes, Hogwarts has changed significantly over the years. In the first film, Hagrid’s cottage is quite close to the castle. It moves for the second movie, and then again for the 3rd (I think). Duh. It’s a movie about a magic school. Of course things changed. (Seriously, perhaps they moved Hagrid’s cottage because of his dangerous pets.) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/280 "2011-07-23T21:48:52Z")
Just got back from an Imax showing with my kids. We all loved it. The only weak point was Tom’s death, as many others have said in this thread - should have followed the book. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Sure, there’s a boathouse. A boathouse that has never been seen (even when the lake has been featured as in book 4), never used, never referred to, never–well, you get my point. I just popped in the DVD of Sorceror’s Stone, and believe it or not you can actually see the boathouse in the very first shot of Hogwarts, when they’re crossing the lake. And geez, that 11 year old CGI is looking really dated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=15)