# Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 discussion thread(spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952 "2011-07-14T00:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/101 "2011-07-16T19:14:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I think only the most fundamentalist purist would be upset at them for streamlining the camping scenes in 7.1. True but the previous movie left out a great deal relating to the planning involved behind getting the locket. 2 minutes of a time collage would have worked. There are a lot of ways to show time passing like in the 3rd movie where Fall moves to Winter during the flight of the owl. That was an excellent transition. Not having anything to do with streamlining, I’m surprised that Rowlings let the final fight scene waiver so far from what she wrote. This was truly her best work. And who let the CGI dweeb in to muck up Tom Riddles death. Hello, actor’s available to act at no additional cost. It caught everybody in the theater by surprise. No momentous climax to 7 books and 8 movies, no clapping. This is one of my major movie peeves, inserting gratuitous special affects in place of story lines and acting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/102 "2011-07-16T19:20:34Z")
A good visual affect would have been to stay to the script and when Voldemort’s body hits the ground, it would have reverted back to an aged version of Tom Riddle so the persona of evil is reduced to it’s human element. He should have died in front of everyone in the castle as in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/103 "2011-07-16T19:25:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He should have died in front of everyone in the castle as in the book. I agree with you on this. I’m surprised they moved it outside like that. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/104 "2011-07-16T19:45:02Z")
Did the movie imply that Voldemort’s power was somehow connected to having a Horcrux? At the end of the movie, he is in a “tie” with Harry during their duel. As soon as Neville kills Nagini, they pause for a moment and then Harry’s spell overcomes Voldemort and the Elder Wand kills Voldemort. Why didn’t the Elder Wand kill Voldemort as soon as the two shot at each other? Is this a plot hole? I know none of this occurs in the book. In the book, they don’t really fight. All the Horcruxes are already gone and the wand just kills him. Or are we to believe Harry is holding back until the Horcrux is destroyed…and the wand somehow knows that. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/105 "2011-07-16T19:56:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Did the movie imply that Voldemort’s power was somehow connected to having a Horcrux? Someone (Harry?) says that when they’ve destroyed the last Horcrux, it will be “just” Voldemort they have to take on, which to me implies exactly that. However, since the objective is to kill him, and the purpose of the Horcruxes is to make him death-proof, that seems valid. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/106 "2011-07-16T20:39:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Did the movie imply that Voldemort’s power was somehow connected to having a Horcrux? At the end of the movie, he is in a “tie” with Harry during their duel. As soon as Neville kills Nagini, they pause for a moment and then Harry’s spell overcomes Voldemort and the Elder Wand kills Voldemort. > > Why didn’t the Elder Wand kill Voldemort as soon as the two shot at each other? Is this a plot hole? I know none of this occurs in the book. In the book, they don’t really fight. All the Horcruxes are already gone and the wand just kills him. > > Or are we to believe Harry is holding back until the Horcrux is destroyed…and the wand somehow knows that. Yes, the movie made a huge plot hole when Harry fights Voldemort because he doesn’t know the snake is dead. Even if he kills Voldemort’s body someone would need to kill the snake afterward. In the movie, they both seem to sense the destruction of the snake and that was something of a plot resolution. But still, the book was so much cleaner in context. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/107 "2011-07-16T21:45:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, the movie made a huge plot hole when Harry fights Voldemort because he doesn’t know the snake is dead. Even if he kills Voldemort’s body someone would need to kill the snake afterward. > > In the movie, they both seem to sense the destruction of the snake and that was something of a plot resolution. But still, the book was so much cleaner in context. Is my wife right in saying that if they killed Voldemort before Nagini was dead, they could just kill the snake afterwards and his soul would be gone anyway? I found it weird that Harry “felt” the death of the last Horcrux, since he had lost his connection with Voldemort at that point. They both look behind Harry…almost like they saw/heard it happen, but Neville was not there where they were fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/108 "2011-07-16T21:48:41Z")
I feel vindicated about Snape. For whatever reason, since the movie that brought in the werewolves \ it never occurred to me that he was going to turn out ‘evil’. Not even after the Dumbledore thing, though I admit I didn’t see that one, just heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/109 "2011-07-16T22:47:18Z")
Oh, and I’m surprised Peter Pettigrew never dies in the movies. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/110 "2011-07-17T01:03:07Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > [li]Again, Kloves shows his Hermione fanboy side: It was Harry’s idea to ride the dragon out, not hers! (Just as Ron stood on a broken leg between Sirius and Harry and told him he’d have to kill them all in PoA, not Hermione!) I love Hermione, too, but Harry’s the hero and Ron’s more than just comic relief.[/li] ? Hermione and Harry rode the dragon out of Gringotts in the book, no fanboi there. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/111 "2011-07-17T01:08:04Z")
now i know how to make a teenage or early-twenties girl look 39 or 40: fix the hair, more make-up and have her wear bad-fitting clothes. for men, slightly longer hair, shadows on the chin, bigger belly. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/112 "2011-07-17T01:36:45Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > ? Hermione and Harry rode the dragon out of Gringotts in the book, no fanboi there. Did he say they did not both ride the dragon out? ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/113 "2011-07-17T01:54:08Z")
Thanks, **Mahaloth**. My point was the screenwriter gave Hermione credit for coming up with the \*idea \*of using the dragon, taking it away from Harry. Of course both of them with Ron rode the dragon out. I just don’t like messing with the characterizations like that for no apparent reason. I don’t care about technicalities like where the final battle took place, or that it made no sense for Cho Chang to still be at Hogwarts, or that Harry’s eyes are supposed to be green, not blue…who cares? It’s when they mess with the character’s personalities that I get annoyed. Like in _Goblet of Fire_…for some reason they had Dumbledore manhandle Harry, shoving him up against the trophies and demanding to know if he had entered the Tournament himself. Canon Dumbledore would \*never \*have done that! Anyway, that’s my minirant for the day. Still love the movie. Still a Harry Potter freak. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/114 "2011-07-17T02:49:39Z")
i agree peskipiksi. i can understand giving lines to other characters for a character not in the movie, but when ron is standing right there why give his lines to hermione? harry giving up the prophecy? just standing around while dumbledore is in danger? ron and hermione just fine with harry going off to be killed? harry just fine using draco’s wand? those are the things i don’t understand getting past rowling and into the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/115 "2011-07-17T04:05:39Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > i was bothered by a similar thing in part 1- the scene where hermione is being tortured by bellatrix. in the book ron is going out of his mind trying to escape, shouting her name, trying to apparate to go to her aid, just losing it because the girl he loves is being tormented. in the movie he just kind of stands there until dobby shows up. ron’s one of my favorite characters and i just expect a lot out of his pivotal scenes, i suppose. it’s like you said- he’s more than just comic relief. I think the books did Ron/Hermione better in general. The problem with the films is that Emma Watson and Dan Radcliffe have such good onscreen chemistry that it almost makes more sense to put _their_ characters together. The canon couples in the films seem a bit forced, whereas in the books they were anything but. It should be noted that I haven’t seen the last film yet. But I have declared to my boyfriend that we are going as soon as humanly possible, and that I am deaf to any protests he might make. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/116 "2011-07-17T04:19:58Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is my wife right in saying that if they killed Voldemort before Nagini was dead, they could just kill the snake afterwards and his soul would be gone anyway? > > I found it weird that Harry “felt” the death of the last Horcrux, since he had lost his connection with Voldemort at that point. They both look behind Harry…almost like they saw/heard it happen, but Neville was not there where they were fighting. You are the plot hole detective. You’re right. Not only did Voldemort never feel the loss of his horcruxes before but Harry’s connection was severed at that point. If Harry had killed Voldemort before the snake died then Voldemort could have jumped into another body and maybe a sequel. It’s not like the books aren’t riddled with plot holes. They were never meant to be dissected. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/117 "2011-07-17T04:46:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not like the books aren’t riddled with plot holes. They were never meant to be dissected. I would not say the books are riddled with plot holes. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/118 "2011-07-17T04:59:38Z")
The Druidess wanted to see this in 3d, so we went today. Wow. I’m sure I missed a lot of the details, because I’d only read the wiki summaries of the previous books, but this movie works as a stand alone story, and it was visually spectacular. This was my first time to see a 3d movie, so that may have something to do with how impressive I found it. Really liked the flying undead critters at the edge of the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/119 "2011-07-17T05:45:44Z")
Twice the movie nearly pissed me off - 1. When it looked like Neville wasn’t going to get to kill Nagini (and I’m a bit unhappy that they had him dweebing around at times - but he made a good heroic kill, so that’s OK). 2. Molly had a moment of panic when starting the fight with Bellatrix that I don’t remember from the books - I was afraid she was going to get a lucky kill shot or someone was going to help - but she rallied brilliantly and showed why she was a Phoenix. Re: the Harry/Voldemort/Nagini plot hole - I think you can handwave it with Harry noticing that his wand suddenly was overpowering Voldemort’s, and he looked where Voldemort was looking (plus that whole destruction of a Horcrux effect would probably pull his attention). Was all of that in the courtyard? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/120 "2011-07-17T07:39:06Z")
Magiver: > [@](#): > > Not only did Voldemort never feel the loss of his horcruxes before Not that this really matters, since in the books it occurs in a different, and more understandable way - but Nagini might have been of different quality than the other horcruxes. After all, Voldemort was able to act through Nagini in book 5 and seemed telepathically connected to Nagini in book 7, during the fight in Bathilda Bagshot’s house. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=7)