# Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 discussion thread(spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952 "2011-07-14T00:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/161 "2011-07-18T06:22:53Z")
well, rapiers are basically thrusting weapons. the slimmer the rapier’s bade, the less likely it can cut by a hewing or chopping movement. it’s not entirely impossible to put a cutting edge on a traditional rapier but sabers, cutlasses, falchions, katanas, and other single-edged swords would certainly be better for a cutting stroke. nitpick: the hilt has hardly anything to do with cutting ability. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/162 "2011-07-18T13:54:38Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Was that Lavender Brown who was dead and being eaten by the werewolf? It was Lavender Brown–It sure looked like she was dead, although her fate in the book is unclear: > [@](#): > > Two bodies fell from the balcony overhead as they reached the ground, and a gray blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen. > > “NO!” shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand, Fenrir Greyback was thrown backward from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown. So it sounds like if she lived, she probably became a werewolf. Poor girl. I like that Hermione defended her, though, after they had been such rivals. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/163 "2011-07-18T14:24:07Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > So it sounds like if she lived, she probably became a werewolf. Poor girl. I like that Hermione defended her, though, after they had been such rivals. Her wiki implies she is dead in the movie, since Trewlaney and Parvati Patil are covering a body soon after. I remember the scene, but did not see who they were covering. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/164 "2011-07-18T16:03:46Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > I think part of what makes it so confusing is that we tend to think one wand for one wizard. But in that final battle, both wands belonged to Harry–he won their allegiance when he disarmed Draco in Malfoy Manor. It’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment in both the book and movie. They did set up the notion of wands changing allegiances without outright killing with their conversation with Ollivander at the very beginning of the movie. He tells them that Bellatrix’s wand is dangerous and to tread carefully, but that Malfoy’s wand seems to be changing its allegiance. They question him on this and he repeats the mantra that the wand chooses the wizard. Heck, it seems open to possibility that the Elder Wand could just say “fuck it, I’m not hanging with this snakey fellow.” > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Her wiki implies she is dead in the movie, since Trewlaney and Parvati Patil are covering a body soon after. I remember the scene, but did not see who they were covering. I assumed it was Padma Patil. In the book both Patil’s a big fans of Trewlaney, and in that scene there is one Patil but not the other. I also assumed that Lavender Brown dies in the movie. She certainly looked dead. Open eyes and not moving is pretty much movie definition of dead. Alive but knocked out requires closed eyes. It was actually the most jarring death. I knew Fred, Lupin, and Tonks die, but they don’t show it happen. I think they might have shown Fred die, but I was confused and it looked like he was about to get it from the Death Eater when Volemort calls off the attack. I guess he was dead at that point, but it wasn’t clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/165 "2011-07-18T16:40:32Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > They did set up the notion of wands changing allegiances without outright killing with their conversation with Ollivander at the very beginning of the movie. He tells them that Bellatrix’s wand is dangerous and to tread carefully, but that Malfoy’s wand seems to be changing its allegiance. They question him on this and he repeats the mantra that the wand chooses the wizard. Heck, it seems open to possibility that the Elder Wand could just say “fuck it, I’m not hanging with this snakey fellow.” I just meant to say that to have the allegiance of two wands at the same time is a little out of the ordinary. I agree they explained the wand chooses the wizard thing amply in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/166 "2011-07-18T16:45:39Z")
Then I agree too. The notion that Harry could win a wand from Malfoy that is miles and miles away from either of them is crazy unintuitive. ETA: I think it would have been stronger to have the Elder Wand be generally fickle. Perhaps have the Elder Wand choose Harry because he had the other two Hallows? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/167 "2011-07-18T17:08:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Example, the “time turner” allows anyone to go back in time and observe what actually happens so their legal system would be flawless. Sirius would never have been imprisoned. The Death Eaters would not be able to say they were imperiusly cursed., etc… Can’t buy this one - the people affected by the time turner don’t have any magic way back - so you’d need a volunteer to go back several months/years (depending) to wherever it was that the Imperious curse was laid on someone (and would the victim necessarily know?), and then not screw up any timelines while waiting to get back to the court to testify - at a minimum, not get themselves killed during the time passage. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/168 "2011-07-18T17:25:41Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Can’t buy this one - the people affected by the time turner don’t have any magic way back - so you’d need a volunteer to go back several months/years (depending) to wherever it was that the Imperious curse was laid on someone (and would the victim necessarily know?), and then not screw up any timelines while waiting to get back to the court to testify - at a minimum, not get themselves killed during the time passage. Concur. Time travel backwards, sure, but the only time travel forwards is at the traditional speed of one second per second. I still rather admire the way Rowling handily did away with all the time turners back in _Order of the Phoenix_, as if she realized that having a ready way to back up a few hours and re-try something would likely cause her lots of headaches in finishing up her tale. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/169 "2011-07-18T17:26:12Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Then I agree too. The notion that Harry could win a wand from Malfoy that is miles and miles away from either of them is crazy unintuitive. > > ETA: I think it would have been stronger to have the Elder Wand be generally fickle. Perhaps have the Elder Wand choose Harry because he had the other two Hallows? Or it could be that normal wands kind of act like that, but usually keep there original master. But the Elder Wand’s allegiance follows directly who won it in battle. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/170 "2011-07-18T17:33:38Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Can’t buy this one - the people affected by the time turner don’t have any magic way back - so you’d need a volunteer to go back several months/years (depending) to wherever it was that the Imperious curse was laid on someone (and would the victim necessarily know?), and then not screw up any timelines while waiting to get back to the court to testify - at a minimum, not get themselves killed during the time passage. I don’t think that’s as big a hurdle as you think. Facing complete evil domination by Voldemort, I think they would be able to find a Ministry dude willing to time turn back to when Tom was a kid and apparate the both of them into space. Grisly end, but totally worth it yes? It’s like Terminator! with Magic! ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/171 "2011-07-18T19:39:52Z")
Very disappointed in the 3D “effects” - it was NOT worth the extra $$. I did like that they showed Harry braking the Elder Wand - really, anything else leaves too great a temptation for someone else to try to come along and defeat him and take it. Rowling blew it with that one. Neville / Luna: cute and what the audience wanted, but I agree, not in the book and not what Rowling intended. Can’t really argue that one though. But the final conflict with Voldy: What a ripoff. It needed to be in front of everyone, not in an isolated courtyard with just Ron and Hermione. And with no visible body, either? Nobody would believe he was really gone. The scene with Molly and Bellatrix looked really contrived. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/172 "2011-07-18T19:59:05Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Neville / Luna: cute and what the audience wanted, but I agree, not in the book and not what Rowling intended. Can’t really argue that one though. > > But the final conflict with Voldy: What a ripoff. It needed to be in front of everyone, not in an isolated courtyard with just Ron and Hermione. And with no visible body, either? Nobody would believe he was really gone. > > The scene with Molly and Bellatrix looked really contrived. Had Neville and Luns shared any scenes previous to this one? I was rooting more for Luna/Harry. They had great chemistry. Voldy and Harry cinematically needed to be just the two of them… bring it full circle. Voldemort ashing away would have been much more powerful if Bellatrix hadn’t just died the exact same way. And I know this is how Rowling did it to… but why bother to introduce that Neville’s parents were killed by Bellatrix but never have him confront her. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/173 "2011-07-18T20:12:23Z")
Nitpick: Neville’s parents weren’t killed, but instead were driven insane, and now are in St. Mungo’s. And as for Harry ending up with Ginny, I thought the idea was that now the three main characters are all now related by marriage in the Weasley family. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/174 "2011-07-18T20:14:12Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > why bother to introduce that Neville’s parents were killed by Bellatrix but never have him confront her. Nitpick: not killed, driven insane. Also, he does confront her, in _Order of the Phoenix_. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/175 "2011-07-18T21:03:16Z")
Just got back from it. The Penseive scene was impressively powerful. Agree that I was underwhelmed and disappointed with the death of Tom Riddle. It needed the gravity of being done in front of everyone and the final THUD of his body hitting the floor in the midst of battle, and we got robbed of that. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/176 "2011-07-18T21:14:54Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Had Neville and Luns shared any scenes previous to this one? I was rooting more for Luna/Harry. They had great chemistry. > > Voldy and Harry cinematically needed to be just the two of them… bring it full circle. Voldemort ashing away would have been much more powerful if Bellatrix hadn’t just died the exact same way. there were times i thought she was setting up luna and harry to end up together. i’d’ve loved that, but i understood why he ended up with ginny. i did like the neville/luna thing from the movie, even though i know that doesn’t happen in the books. i’ve never had it confirmed, but my theory is that luna ended up with dean thomas. i figured out another reason why the harry/voldy fight bugged me. we’re talking the most evil dark wizard of all time here, nearly equal to dumbledore in dueling, and harry holds his own throughout that whole fight? when mcgonagall, kingsley, and slughorn combined (the three way duel from the book) can’t overtake him? maybe we’re meant to think voldemort was weakened by the horcruxes being destroyed, but i don’t buy it. two had already been destroyed prior to the events of this book, and there was never any hint that his powers has lessened at all. it’s believable in the book because they only shoot one spell at each other at the end. they don’t engage in a proper duel. i don’t see harry being the winner were that the case. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/177 "2011-07-18T21:23:42Z")
Luna ended up married to a guy named [Rolf Scamander](http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Rolf_Scamander). Maybe Harry could hold his own against Voldemort in the final battle because Voldie was forcing the Elder Wand to do battle against its proper owner. I can see the wand refusing to use its full power in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/178 "2011-07-18T21:35:38Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > Luna ended up married to a guy named [Rolf Scamander](http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Rolf_Scamander). > > Maybe Harry could hold his own against Voldemort in the final battle because Voldie was forcing the Elder Wand to do battle against its proper owner. I can see the wand refusing to use its full power in that situation. aw. i was hoping i was right about the dean thing. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/179 "2011-07-18T21:46:39Z")
I know…I was disappointed, too. But I guess it’s too much to ask to have all the main characters find their one true love as teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952/180 "2011-07-18T23:21:02Z")
did anyone else find the slytherin internment camp to be unsettling? i’m the only one amongst my friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-2-discussion-thread-spoilers/588952.md?page=10)