# Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2005, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818 "2005-07-16T10:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/441 "2005-07-21T21:09:00Z")
Graphics Gal: > [@](#): > > but I’m not sure Voldemort, who has no friends and I am willing to bet has never trusted anyone, would allow anyone to have anything to do with putting one of his horcruxes in a safe place. On the other hand, the diary horcrux was clearly placed in Lucius Malfoy’s care (though Voldemort has since come to regret that). ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/442 "2005-07-21T21:30:33Z")
> [@Kiminy](#): > > How did RAB get the locket, though? If it wasn’t possible for one person to retrieve it on his/her own, then there must be another person who knows about it (or who knew about it). > > I like the suggestion that Dumbledore found the hiding place of the locket on his own, then realized he needed help to retrieve it. However, why did he pick Harry instead of another OotP member? Why should only Harry (and Ron and Hermione by extension) know about the horcluxes? RAB thought he was string enought to evade Voldemort… ---
**Author:** ![merrily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@merrily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrily)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/443 "2005-07-21T21:47:51Z")
Voldemort doesn’t know that Harry is a horcrux (if he really is). Dumbledore says that he doesn’t think Voldemort is able to be very aware of his horcruxes, since they have been divided from him for so long. Voldemort’s soul was already pretty narrow by the time he got around to trying to kill baby Harry, so maybe one more division didn’t make so much difference. He tried to kill Harry, and it backfired, and it could be that he never put two and two together and figured out that it was more than Lily’s protection that kept Harry alive. Harry being a horcrux makes the scene in the graveyard make a little more sense: Voldmort couldn’t kill Harry, and was amazed by it, too. Maybe he can’t kill “himself” like that (e.g., his own soul fragment) for the same reason he can’t be killed while other fragments exist. Dumbledore can’t tell Harry outright because he fears Voldemort would learn it, until Harry can shield his thoughts better. It could also be that Dumbledore isn’t really sure, and has his own thing going with Snape. ---
**Author:** ![merrily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@merrily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrily)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/444 "2005-07-21T21:49:55Z")
Also, the results of Voldemort’s attempt on baby Harry were bad enough that Voldemort had his own existence to deal with, and didn’t have time to fully take in all that happened or why. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/445 "2005-07-21T21:51:21Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > RAB thought he was string enought to evade Voldemort… Obviously he knew otherwise, else he wouldn’t have worded his Nelson Muntz (\*Hah-hah![/]i) letter the way he did. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/446 "2005-07-21T22:04:15Z")
Specs on ending of series. It’s all got to come down to love and sacrifice. That interview of JKR (great link, thanks) just underscores it for me. I think that blood will not matter. It will be the choice made by whoever. I am not sure if HP will die or someone else (and I hesitate to predict one of the Trio’s deaths–now a Quad with Ginny…make that inner group with Neville and Luna, and even Draco)–but perhaps it is Snape who dies to protect the Group and the future of Good Magic. I still think he has some kind of tie to Lily–unrequited love or something. It is never Harry’s mom that he mocks, only James (and with good reason-I am no longer a fan of James). I can’t figure out the horcruxes–I need to reread book 6, but am on book 5 (which is making alot more sense and also the small petty details seem to loom larger or more significantly, somehow). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/447 "2005-07-21T23:49:37Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > Isn’t it wonderful in these turbulent times that so many like minded people can be interested and captivated by something like this and discuss all the different possibly theories and conclusions for a book and not get into a flame war! Oh indeed. I’m discussing the book on another thread and even though I DON’T think Harry is a horcrux, I’m laying out why it may be plausible (backing up someone else). Of course I’m being hounded and saying how ridiculous and stupid the theory is, etc, etc. Thankfully here, while we disagree with the theories, we don’t dismiss them in such a fashion, but discuss it and then agree to disagree (without too much harping). ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/448 "2005-07-22T00:28:22Z")
several pages back mr. morris and i had a bit of a discussion on where tom stands on his horcruxes back up. it was around the time of the “big merge.” i’m thinking harry was hit by a bit of splatter during the backfire. that bit of splatter is what created the link with tom and the scar. the charm from his mother’s sacrifice shielded him from a direct hit, but it seems when tom’s body was destroyed, it created quite a bit of damage to the house as well as tom. a drop or two of “essence of tom” may have hit and stuck to harry. not enough “tom essence” to create a horcruxe, but enough to create a link. giving harry a bit of “tom telepathy”, the ability to speak snake, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/449 "2005-07-22T03:09:50Z")
That’s another thing. Apparently when Voldie attacked baby Harry and died, the whole house was demolished. But a simple _Avada Kadavra_ isn’t capable of that, is it? Something else must’ve happened there. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/450 "2005-07-22T05:42:56Z")
So my next nagging question is this: How is Draco supposed to kill Dumbledore? I mean he has spent the last year working on a way to get the Death Eaters into Hogwarts, but his real task was to kill AD. So somewhere along the line he’s got to have learned the _Avara Kadavra_ from somewhere. But we’ve been discussing, and it seems to be the consensus, that the AK spell is very technically and mentally difficult. So was Draco supposed to be using the AK spell to kill arguably the most powerful wizard ever (albeit in a weakened condition) or did he have some other spell in mind? ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/451 "2005-07-22T05:43:28Z")
I still don’t get how many horcruxes are out there, and I don’t understand how when Voldy’s avada kedavra curse on Harry backfires, Voldy doesn’t access one of his horcruxes so he can come back. He must have had to access one of them, and if that’s so, and Nagini is one of his horcruxes, then he’d have to have taken that one back. RAB may have destroyed the locket, Dumbledore got the ring, Harry killed the diary, Voldy accessed the Nagini one, So, dangit, how can there be four of them left, when Voldy only made six, and then the seventh part of his sould was in him when Lily’s protection charm killed him? Oh, I’m so confused. ---
**Author:** ![stringy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@stringy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stringy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/452 "2005-07-22T06:46:20Z")
Tangent: (Pullman’s His Dark Materials trilogy) > [@smiling bandit](#): > > But if they are angels in the sense I thin of, they are neither male nor female nor alive in the sense we thin of (they are alive in a much broader sense). I think you said earlier that you hadn’t read Pullman’s books? Pullman goes to a lot of trouble to re-define traditional religious concepts for the purposes of this book. So the concept of angels as sexless (or “angels in the sense I think of them”) doesn’t apply in this particular case - angels can be however the author writes them. This isn’t one of those cases of people reading something into the story that the author didn’t intend; it’s part of Pullman’s story. um, topic… People have put forward some really interesting ideas, but I really can’t buy the “Harry is a Horcrux” theory. It would mean re-jigging lots of important scenes in previous books (baby Harry v Voldy, Riddle’s diary, Harry v Voldy in GoF), makes Dumbledore either stupid or a liar, and is a very fiddly solution to issues that have already been explained (Parselmouth, visions in OotP). Plus, if a living person was carrying around a piece of a very evil soul, I’d expect to see more vicious effects than just knowing snake-language and chucking adolescent tantrums. Dumbledore has already noticed that Harry’s life so far would be enough to tempt anyone to the Dark Arts, but that Harry has never wanted to pursue them. He’s only used Dark Art-style spells twice: once in OoTP, against Bellatrix Lestrange and without any success; and once on Draco without knowing what it would do, and feeling very remorseful afterwards. I don’t think you could have a piece of Voldy’s soul inside you for 16 years without it having a more significant effect than we’ve seen in Harry. It’s not like carrying around his quill or his Every-Flavour Beans, after all 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/453 "2005-07-22T11:34:40Z")
About the quiddich scoring thing, there is a card game that the chinese play in which, once you have disposed of all your cards, you get 100 points and end the game. Given that points are counted in 10 point increments, the situation is roughly analagous to quiddich scoring and it does work. So it’s not completely absurd although I agree it could have been thought out better. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/454 "2005-07-22T11:45:15Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > So my next nagging question is this: How is Draco supposed to kill Dumbledore? I mean he has spent the last year working on a way to get the Death Eaters into Hogwarts, but his real task was to kill AD. So somewhere along the line he’s got to have learned the _Avara Kadavra_ from somewhere. But we’ve been discussing, and it seems to be the consensus, that the AK spell is very technically and mentally difficult. So was Draco supposed to be using the AK spell to kill arguably the most powerful wizard ever (albeit in a weakened condition) or did he have some other spell in mind? Why is _avada kedavra_ difficult to learn? Harry is able to cast _crucio_ the first time he tries it. (He just wasn’t mad enough to give it any force.) I really don’t think AK is hard to learn. It’s just illegal. ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/455 "2005-07-22T12:22:35Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I second the theory that Snape had an unrequited love for Lily. Afterall, it is James that he hates so very much (and between you and me, James was an ass of the first order)-- I’ll bet that Snape used his mother’s book, had Lily as a Potions partner and crushed on her summthin fierce. To see her pick his worst enemy at school for a life partner must have hurt–it explains so much about Snape. I have been re-reading “Order of the Phoenix” before I bought my copy of “Half-Blood Prince”, and as I was reading the scene where James hoists Snape up so that everyone can see his undies. Lily steps forward to protect Snape and Snape calls her a mudblood and says he doesn’t want her help. And I thought, that is exactly how an angry teenager would react caught in a humiliating moment by a girl he had a crush on. Far from being grateful for her protection, he’d lash out with the worst thing he could think of, which is what Snape did. Rather than being able to impress Lily, Snape ended up needing her help, and that shame rankled and festered. I think, given a teenager’s sensitivity, that kind of humiliation would be seared into Snape’s memories, and be more than enough to explain his hatred of James. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/456 "2005-07-22T13:32:12Z")
> [@celestina](#): > > I still don’t get how many horcruxes are out there, and I don’t understand how when Voldy’s avada kedavra curse on Harry backfires, Voldy doesn’t access one of his horcruxes so he can come back. He must have had to access one of them, and if that’s so, and Nagini is one of his horcruxes, then he’d have to have taken that one back. RAB may have destroyed the locket, Dumbledore got the ring, Harry killed the diary, Voldy accessed the Nagini one, So, dangit, how can there be four of them left, when Voldy only made six, and then the seventh part of his sould was in him when Lily’s protection charm killed him? Oh, I’m so confused. My understanding is this: 1. Voldemort makes 5 horcruxes(the cup, the locket, the diary, the ring and something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor) 2. At some point, RAB steals the locket. We don’t know where it is or what happened to it. 3. Voldemort goes to kill Harry, intending to use that death to create the 6th horcrux(which, when successful, would mean his soul is split into 7 pieces) 4. The Avada Kadavra rebounds on Voldemort, and should have killed him. However, so long as his horcruxes exist, Voldemort can’t be killed, so the sixth piece of his soul(the one in his body) is not destroyed, but left as shadow and vapour. 5. Harry destroys the diary in CoS. Voldemort is down to 4 horcruxes. 6. Voldemort gets his body back. 7. Voldemort kills the old man at the beginning of GoF. He uses that murder to make Nagini his last horcrux. 8. Dumbledore destroys the ring. 2 horcruxes have been confirmed as destroyed. So, Nagini, the cup and the thing that belonged to Ravenclaw or Gryffindor need to be dealt with. The locket that RAB stole is unaccounted for – we have no idea whether RAB was able to destroy it or not. That means there are potentially 4 horcruxes for Harry to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/457 "2005-07-22T13:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > From the interview: > Like certain shippers we know! That word, shippers, has shown up a couple times in the thread, too–I’ve never heard it used before. What’s it mean? ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/458 "2005-07-22T14:11:36Z")
> [@MixieArmadillo](#): > > That word, shippers, has shown up a couple times in the thread, too–I’ve never heard it used before. What’s it mean? People who advocate for relationships between certain characters. Ones who want Ron and hermione together are the R/H shippers… etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/459 "2005-07-22T14:15:35Z")
> [@MixieArmadillo](#): > > That word, shippers, has shown up a couple times in the thread, too–I’ve never heard it used before. What’s it mean? People who, having no love life of their own, develop an unhealthy obsession with the romantic entanglements of fictional characters. In advanced cases, they write stories about Harry and Draco falling in love with each other. It comes from “relation_ship_” and generally “shippers” and rooting for one particular pairing to happen - Harry and Hermione, or Hermione and Ron, or (judging by some online fanfic I inadvertently discovered) Harry and Snape. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/460 "2005-07-22T15:15:55Z")
The potion in the basin in the cave wasn’t the horcrux. Presumably someone else has also drank it (RAB or his minion), meaning that the bit of soul would be in that person (Kreacher? Makes sense, really). Or, as someone else mentioned, that the bit of soul would either be subdivided and subdivided, or would be able to clone itself. Doesn’t make sense, really (nor does the disappearing/reappearing potion). However (and this’ll really boil your noodle), it’s possible that nobody had to drink the potion at all. Harry and Dumbledore couldn’t simply reach in to the potion; it was enchanted to prevent that. But you could reach in so long as you had the cup in your hand - to dip into the potion (I remember special note being made of this). So, it seems it’d be easy as pie to hold the cup in your hand, reach in to the bottom of the basin while still holding the cup, and pull out the locket, all without having to drink a drop. I’m guessing your hand would probably be pretty gravely injured, but I think it’d work (at least, we don’t have any evidence telling us it wouldn’t, yet). Perhaps this is how RAB retrieved the locket, without ever needing a second wizard at all. Or not - I’m sure there’s a flaw in there somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818.md?page=24)