# Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2005, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818 "2005-07-16T10:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/461 "2005-07-22T15:18:16Z")
I have a life, and many relationships, but I am always interested in people getting together. It can’t all be action and explosions. some people are more interested in how characters relate to one another. I am sure that there are some obsessive folks out there, as well. **blackhobyah** --I agree. I pity Snape. He came from a crappy background (HP invades Snape’s mind during the Occulemency lessons and sees a small boy watching his mother get beaten up) and I doubt he can overcome it. He is alone-no romantic interests etc. I think he put all his passion and intensity into Lily…with soul annihilating results. Anyone else think that James and Sirius’ “reasons” for bullying Snape are pathetically nonexistent? James had no good reason to pick on Snape. And Sirius is only reliving and feeding the enmity. I have almost no respect for either of them–Sirius did HP no favors with his adolescent mindset. I am hoping that Lily shows herself in the last book and helps HP. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/462 "2005-07-22T15:36:09Z")
I haven’t read the thread yet… But I can soon! The book arrived yesterday, and I have just over 100 pages to go. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/463 "2005-07-22T16:21:52Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > However (and this’ll really boil your noodle), it’s possible that nobody had to drink the potion at all. Harry and Dumbledore couldn’t simply reach in to the potion; it was enchanted to prevent that. But you could reach in so long as you had the cup in your hand - to dip into the potion (I remember special note being made of this). So, it seems it’d be easy as pie to hold the cup in your hand, reach in to the bottom of the basin while still holding the cup, and pull out the locket, all without having to drink a drop. I’m guessing your hand would probably be pretty gravely injured, but I think it’d work (at least, we don’t have any evidence telling us it wouldn’t, yet). Perhaps this is how RAB retrieved the locket, without ever needing a second wizard at all. > > Or not - I’m sure there’s a flaw in there somewhere. I also thought that Dumbledore could have created a bucket as well as the cup, dumping the potion in the bucker until the basin was empty (unless the basin “knows” the potion isn’t being drunk, in which case the basin will continue to fill with potion no matter how much one dumps out). It strikes me that Dumbledore must have had some clue that drinking the potion was the only was to empty the basin, possibly from a recovered memory. I certainly wouldn’t have thought to drink the stuff without some prior knowledge that drinking would be necessary (well, I confess I’m a fussy eater). ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/464 "2005-07-22T16:33:07Z")
**USCDiver:** He should have said “_Accio Generic Sword!_”. ---
**Author:** ![meanoldman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@meanoldman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meanoldman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/465 "2005-07-22T16:44:42Z")
I am probably not as into it as others are, and I’m also a bit of a pollyanna in outlook, but these several things strike me. 1. Harry Potter is “the boy who lived”. Though definitely rare, the AK death curse can be made not to work completely. 2. The AK curse directed at Harry was done so by one of the most powerful wizards ever. 3. Dumbledore was a very powerful wizard in his own right. 4. Dumbledore worked with Flamel on the stone. No dummy he regarding things dealing with long life. 5. Until Snape arrived, Dumbledore’s tone was one of benevolence and protection towards Malfoy. Even with the Death-Eaters in the room. It changed dramatically, as if on cue, when Snape arrived. As if a “betrayal” was already known. 6. At the funeral, Harry dismisses seeing the image of a Phoenix. And a Phoenix is a symbol of what??? As Peter Griffin (of Family Guy) would say “C’mon. Come on”. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/466 "2005-07-22T16:46:59Z")
> [@meanoldman](#): > > I am probably not as into it as others are, and I’m also a bit of a pollyanna in outlook, but these several things strike me. > > 1. Harry Potter is “the boy who lived”. Though definitely rare, the AK death curse can be made not to work completely. > 2. The AK curse directed at Harry was done so by one of the most powerful wizards ever. > 3. Dumbledore was a very powerful wizard in his own right. > 4. Dumbledore worked with Flamel on the stone. No dummy he regarding things dealing with long life. > 5. Until Snape arrived, Dumbledore’s tone was one of benevolence and protection towards Malfoy. Even with the Death-Eaters in the room. It changed dramatically, as if on cue, when Snape arrived. As if a “betrayal” was already known. > 6. At the funeral, Harry dismisses seeing the image of a Phoenix. And a Phoenix is a symbol of what??? > > As Peter Griffin (of Family Guy) would say “C’mon. Come on”. 6] Phoenix image was Dumby’s Patronis ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/467 "2005-07-22T16:59:59Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > (judging by some online fanfic I inadvertently discovered) Harry and Snape. Known as Snarry. I’m not a shipper of any sort, but this term has come up a lot recently on a listserv that I’m on. I had to ask what Snarry was the first time I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/468 "2005-07-22T17:08:26Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > That’s another thing. Apparently when Voldie attacked baby Harry and died, the whole house was demolished. But a simple _Avada Kadavra_ isn’t capable of that, is it? Something else must’ve happened there. See my post [#323 of this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6383836&postcount=323). > [@kd99 (snipped some](#): > > Now, I don’t know how a Horcrux is made, but I suspect the procedure is something like this: > > 1.) Prepare a significant object, using an appropriate Dark incantation, to house the portion of your soul. > 2.) Prepare your own soul for the division/implantation, perhaps by projecting a portion of it beyond its normal boundaries, like a pseudopod. > 3.) Perform Avada Kedavra on your chosen victim. > > As the victim’s soul departs his body, it intersects with the portion of your soul that you have projected beyond your own flesh (the origin of the -crux portion of the word Horcrux, perhaps?). This causes that portion of your soul to be split off, at which point you cast a spell upon it to direct it into your previously-prepared object. > > Things went rather wrong with this process in Godric’s Hollow, with the result that Harry’s soul did not depart the infant’s body. The spell rebounded upon Voldemort, killing the body\*\*, leaving only the projected portion of the soul intact. This partial soul of Voldemort’s is what he dragged to Albania. > > \*\*Vaporizing it, more likely; hence the destruction of the house. Please note that the above is pure speculation. But also note that no-one has bothered to shoot it down. This signifies either that it is unassailable, or that I am beneath the notice of 99.999% of the posters to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/469 "2005-07-22T17:10:35Z")
> [@meanoldman](#): > > …(snip)… I’m also a bit of a pollyanna in outlook > . Interesting comment from a MeanOldMan (ahem) ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/470 "2005-07-22T17:57:42Z")
And another thing… Dumbledore would never die begging for his life, facing Voldemort, Snape or anyone else. Totally out of character. The pleading was either to ask Snape to go through with it, or a kind of code word that now was the time to carry out the pre-planned scenario. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/471 "2005-07-22T18:15:29Z")
> [@GraphicsGal](#): > > Interesting comment from a MeanOldMan (ahem) Maybe his IRL name is Mr. Pendergast. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/472 "2005-07-22T18:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyone else think that James and Sirius’ “reasons” for bullying Snape are pathetically nonexistent? James had no good reason to pick on Snape. We’ve only seen a tiny snippet of their adolescence, but even in the “Snape’s Worst Memory” chapter there are plenty of indications that Snape gave as good as he got – or worse. He bumps up the level of physical violence in the scene by gashing James’ cheek open, while J&S merely humiliate him but don’t cause him physical harm, and he calls Lily, who’s only trying to help him, by the vilest racial epithet in their culture. Lupin says in the firechat scene that “Snape never lost an opportunity to curse James, and you couldn’t expect James to take that lying down,” and in HBP, this is corroborated when we find out that Snape actually _invented_ the curse James uses on him. I’m not totally without sympathy for Snape, but he ain’t exactly an innocent victim here. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/473 "2005-07-22T20:53:28Z")
I know, bad form to post without reading the entire thread, but I want to get my own personal WAG on Snape and Dumbledore. I apologize if someone has already put forth a similar explanation. My theory: Dumbledore knew that Snape was actually loyal to Voldemort, or at least of a conflicted mind, but thought that he still had a shred of good left in him. Dumbledore refused to even consider anything that would cast doubt on Snape’s character because he knew that as soon showed the slightest sign of mistrust, he would lose any chance he had of redeeming Snape. Unfortunately, the Headmaster didn’t know that thanks to Bellatrix’s accusations and Narcissa’s Unbreakable Vow, he had already lost the fight for Snape’s Loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/474 "2005-07-22T22:04:02Z")
I’m no Snape apologist, but the way I see it is that James had no reason to “go there”. Sirius gives the reason for the bullying that Snape existed. Not good enough. Calling people names is very bad, but I took away from that memory a concerted campaign by James and Black to torment Snape any way they could, whenever they felt like it. Definition of a jerk, to me. Snape was fighting his own demons and was most likely miserable within himself. He is damaged. We know nothing of James’ background, but his demeanor leads me to think that he was more fortunate in his childhood than Snape. I pity Snape, while being angered by his actions and frustrated, frankly, at the continued obtuseness of HP. Yep-he’s a prick, too, but like Dumbledore says, it’s the choices you make. James didn’t have to perpetuate the enmity. James was in the better position; he had friends; he was idolized, and he had a natural talent that guaranteed him respect. Snape had none of that. I hold James in contempt–and Sirius too. Both were arrogant, strutting pricks in Hogwarts. I sincerely hope that James improved a whole lot (or did he put a spell on Lily?). Sirius’ responses to Snape’s baiting say to me that he hasn’t grown much, despite his suffering (or maybe because of it). ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/475 "2005-07-22T22:54:34Z")
I don’t have much to add, after ten pages. I never liked Snape, still don’t like Snape, whether he was on Dumbledore’s Orders or not. I think he scarred some of his students for life, and he did arrange the murder of the guy who saved his life and the woman who defended him. The excuse of “I didn’t know it was going to be him” is pretty lame – he knew someone would die. A bit more respect for Draco and his mommy. He has a little bit of human being in him, and she’s a better mom than Petunia is a foster mom. Draco can also execute a plan. He proved himself the anti-Harry in this one – capable of executing a plan right under the nose of his mentor/protector (Snape is Draco’s Dumbledore), but still had to have his mentor come in and save him at the last (just like Harry needs Dumbledore). Two other things. First of all, anyone else notice that Zacharias Smith is the likely Heir of Hufflepuff? Hepzibah Smith is the same combination of Very Biblical Name + Smith as Zacharias, and she’s a direct enough descendant to possess the Hufflecup. And just as Riddle is an odd Half-Blood in Slytherin, Zacharias is an impolite jerk of a Hufflepuff. Anyone else picture Zacharias opening the Hufflepuff Chamber of Secrets by speaking Badgertongue, and sicking the Giant, Killer Badger on his fellow students? 🙂 The other thing is that I think the salient detail of Voldemort’s past – the reason why he’s so evil – is not because of the orphanage, or because he’s peeling his soul like an onion, but because he worked at Borgin and Burkes as a clerk for several years. Working customer service will make even the most pleasant people want to kill off most of the human race. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/476 "2005-07-22T23:11:48Z")
Oh, and excuse me if I missed this – I was skimming very quickly – but I have to say a locket is the lamest evil wizard artefact ever. Evil wizards are supposed to have the Staff of Eternal Darkness, the Dagger of Poison, the Book of Absolute, Brain-Curdling Evil. They do not carry around lockets. What else has Slytherin left, besides a ring and a locket, I wonder? Old subscription cars to Teen People? The My Little Pony Collection of Ineffable Damnation? An whose picture is in it? The Basilisk’s? Helga Hufflepuff’s? Godric Gryffindor’s? (Actually, in spite of all the ranting, it’s my favourite in the series so far, except for the romantic bits which tended to fall very flat). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/477 "2005-07-22T23:25:46Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > What else has Slytherin left, besides a ring and a locket, I wonder? Old subscription cars to Teen People? The My Little Pony Collection of Ineffable Damnation? Scrunchies of Doooom! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/478 "2005-07-22T23:27:53Z")
That’s got to be one of the best posts yet in this thread, **Hamish**. Welcome to the discussion, BTW. I was beginning to wonder when you’d finish the book and join us. ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/479 "2005-07-22T23:30:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Maybe his IRL name is Mr. Pendergast. OK, you got me… Mr. Pendergast 😕 ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818/480 "2005-07-22T23:34:14Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > Oh, and excuse me if I missed this – I was skimming very quickly – but I have to say a locket is the lamest evil wizard artefact ever. > > Evil wizards are supposed to have the Staff of Eternal Darkness, the Dagger of Poison, the Book of Absolute, Brain-Curdling Evil. They do not carry around lockets. > > What else has Slytherin left, besides a ring and a locket, I wonder? Old subscription cars to Teen People? The My Little Pony Collection of Ineffable Damnation? > > An whose picture is in it? The Basilisk’s? Helga Hufflepuff’s? Godric Gryffindor’s? > > (Actually, in spite of all the ranting, it’s my favourite in the series so far, except for the romantic bits which tended to fall very flat). All right, now I have soda all over my screen… I think the only reason the locket is in there is because it belonged to his mother…not that Voldemort is run over with sentimental feelings, but after discovering he was a descendent of Salazar Slytherin, I think ancient family corn pads might have taken on new significance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-spoilers/312818.md?page=25)