# Harry Potter fans, a question please... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462 "2005-02-10T21:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/1 "2005-02-10T21:18:32Z")
So I just got finished reading the first five books. Excellent, tightly plotted, superbly written books, each and every one of them. I am left wondering why it took me so long to get into them. I expect it had something to do with their popularity and trendiness. I usually turn my nose up at most of these pop-culture phenomena…sometimes, as in this case, to my detriment. Aaaanyway, my question is this: In the last book, _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_, is it just me, or was Rowling writing Potter as if he were a stereotypically hormone-addled 15 year old? I mean, my God, he was a loud, abrasive, obnoxious, whiny bitch in this novel. Was Rowling merely trying to capture the essence of the stereotypical mid-adolescent boy “climbing Fool’s Hill,” or was she trying to show that he was very nearly about to crack from the pressure? I know he had his O.W.L.'s, and that Dumbledore wasn’t speaking to him, and that Hagrid was missing, and that Voldemort was trying to break into his thoughts, and Umbridge…well, the less said about her, the better…and all sorts of other pressure. But it seemed to me, every time I turned a page, Harry was shrieking, roaring, attacking, and upbraiding everyone around him…especially Ron and Hermione. Made me think more of Draco Malfoy than the kind, thoughtful Harry Potter I’ve come to know. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/2 "2005-02-10T21:21:45Z")
Oh, and at this point, I’m almost ready to say “to hell with Potter, write me a book about Severus Snape!” He’s by far the most fascinating character in the novels to me. ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/3 "2005-02-10T21:22:52Z")
Yeah, I got that strong impression when I first read Order of the Phoenix, too. I think she’s doing it on purpose, to show long-term character development. I mean, think of when _you_ were fifteen. Personally, I was secretive, uncommunicative, easily upset, and prone to fly off the handle at basically nothing. I think she nailed it. Genius, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/4 "2005-02-10T21:25:02Z")
Man, I was exactly like Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix when I was fifteen. He’ll grow out of it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/5 "2005-02-10T21:26:18Z")
I think Rowling is just trying to write teenagers as realistically as she possibly can. You’ll remember in Book IV that some boy is showing an interest in Hermione. This upsets Ron to no end, but he can’t quite figure out why. Harry, OTOH, was under a lot of pressure, in addition to all the requisite teenage angst. In addition to the things mentioned in the OP, there’s also the fact his crush on Cho was going nowhere, and the one person who could permanently save him from the Dursley’s was a persecutive fugitive from justice. So, yeah, Harry had a lot to bitch about. And bitch he did. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoneyKingofNowhere)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/6 "2005-02-10T21:33:56Z")
One of the things I think is true is that as _popular_ as Harry is (and he gets away with entirely too much (at least in the early books) simply because of who he is), he is also the target of others (through jealously, hatred) and I think JK does a good job of showing both the good and bad sides of constantly being in the spotlight, not only on a “national” level, but a local/everyday life level as well. Early on Harry had a bit of trouble (but not that much) being the constant center of attention, but as he’s matured into the 15 year-old adolecent, he’s having a much harder time dealing with the negative side of being “the famous Harry Potter”… That said, maybe he’ll get laid or drink some firewhiskey in book six so he can relax some. Ok, that was out of line. Kidding. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/7 "2005-02-10T21:34:47Z")
Yeah, I undderstand. Reminds me of why I roll my eyes a lot when I’m around my 15-year-old niece. 🙂 It was well-done, but it left me with the impression that Harry is a ragged mess who’s about to fly “around the twist,” as Sirius might say, and lose control of himself. I don’t envy Dumbledore. Not only does he have to deal with the Second Rise of the Dark Lord and his Death Eaters, but he also has to somehow control a raging Harry Potter. And that blue-faced screaming temper-tantrum in Dumbledore’s office? Man, I wanted to punch his lights out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/8 "2005-02-10T21:35:13Z")
Yeah, I understand. Reminds me of why I roll my eyes a lot when I’m around my 15-year-old niece. 🙂 It was well-done, but it left me with the impression that Harry is a ragged mess who’s about to fly “around the twist,” as Sirius might say, and lose control of himself. I don’t envy Dumbledore. Not only does he have to deal with the Second Rise of the Dark Lord and his Death Eaters, but he also has to somehow control a raging Harry Potter. And that blue-faced screaming temper-tantrum in Dumbledore’s office? Man, I wanted to punch his lights out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/9 "2005-02-10T21:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > That said, maybe he’ll get laid or drink some firewhiskey in book six so he can relax some. Ok, that was out of line. Kidding. Sorry. Not really out of line at all, if we’re taking an unblinking look at adolescent life. I found myself wondering at several times whether Harry had managed to discover the wonders of shower masturbation yet. At 15, he’s overdue. But of course, Rowling takes the Star Trek approach to bathrooms and showers…except for the bit about the Prefect’s bathroom in _Goblet of Fire_ and Moaning Myrtle in _Chamber of Secrets_, they don’t really exist as a functional facility. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/10 "2005-02-10T21:48:11Z")
> [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](#): > > That said, maybe he’ll get laid or drink some firewhiskey in book six so he can relax some. Ok, that was out of line. Kidding. Sorry. How will British audiences react if Harry were to sneak off and get some nookie? (I can already imagine how American audiences will react :eek: ) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/11 "2005-02-10T21:51:37Z")
Hell, he already swills butterbeer like a champ. They all do. I assume it’s not just a soft drink, judging from its effects on Winky the house-elf. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoneyKingofNowhere)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/12 "2005-02-10T21:52:39Z")
Well, as “grown up” of a book as I consider Order of the Phoenix to be, I guess I still see the books marketed towards kids, so unless such items are relayed in enuendo, I doubt it be appropriate. After all, aren’t there a bunch of right-wing-nut-job-soccer mom who protest the book because of the “wizardy” content and its supposed connection with evil (what a joke)… Just think though if Harry used his invisibility cloak to steal some firewhiskey and go snooping around the girls dormatories/showers! At least, that’s what would at least cross my mind anyway (esp at age 15!). Then again, probably not worth the risk of getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/13 "2005-02-10T22:15:07Z")
Well, and there’s also that klaxon and trick staircase leading up to the girls’ dormitory. I doubt if they would be fooled by the invisibility cloak. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/14 "2005-02-10T22:19:34Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > Yeah, I got that strong impression when I first read Order of the Phoenix, too. I think she’s doing it on purpose, to show long-term character development. I mean, think of when _you_ were fifteen. Personally, I was secretive, uncommunicative, easily upset, and prone to fly off the handle at basically nothing. I think she nailed it. Genius, IMHO. Throw on the fact that the has a sociopathic-homocidal-megolomanical stalker after him book after book and the fact that he’s only just found out not that long ago that: [ul] [li]He’s a wizard[/li][li]He has magic powers too.[/li][li]His parents were murdered by the aboveforementioned stalker.[/li][li]His Mean Aunt and Uncle have lied to him all these years and give him their fat and useless son’s handme downs to him.[/li][li]There is, apparently, in the Wizarding World, no kind of councelling for kids who’s parents that have been vaporized by Evil Dark Lords. ( I mean, look at Neville.)[/li][li]In the Muggle World, he gets even less support and he is a friendless freak.[/li][li]He’s got a scar on his head that is possibly less noticeable than a swastika.[/li][li]Everyone knew all about him and his parents before he did.[/li][li]His parents were both great wizards in their own right. So, no pressure there.[/li][li]And to top it off, his testicles are dropping![/li][/ul] If he were anyone of us, he’d be doing mainline drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/15 "2005-02-10T22:24:09Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, and at this point, I’m almost ready to say “to hell with Potter, write me a book about Severus Snape!” He’s by far the most fascinating character in the novels to me. I’m really hoping she does give us much more information about Snape. He is a very interesting, if not terribly likable character. And yeah, agree that Harry is just 15. Hopefully he’s grown out of it a bit in Book 6. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/16 "2005-02-11T22:19:26Z")
The fact that Rowling was pregnant when she wrote much of the last book may also have to do with the hormonally unbalanced emotional part of it. But, comic parts of the book aside, Harry’s dealing with three types of rejection in the book: his foster parents (who have now removed any doubts he ever had about whether they had any feelings for him), his parents (who through Hogwarts he feels he knows better than he did and who through Snape he learns weren’t necessarily good people [at least not the father- nothing bad about the mother yet]), and Sirius (who excludes him to a degree and then dies… sort of… maybe As for the masturbation, this was addressed in the fifth and one-half book _Harry Potter & the Soggy Kleenex_ but it was only privately published. My wonderings: What is the significance of Dumbledore’s brother (or is he a red herring)? Are Harry and Voldemort somehow the same person? However will they make _Goblet of Fire_ into one movie? Will Draco become Harry’s allie in the next book or in the book after that [I’m guessing he will in one or the other, though this obviously isn’t confirmed]? Will Hermione reveal that she’s is carrying Crookshank’s lovechild due to feline ovaries left over from when she was briefly a cat in _Chamber of Secrets_? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/17 "2005-02-11T22:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Will Draco become Harry’s allie in the next book or in the book after that [I’m guessing he will in one or the other, though this obviously isn’t confirmed]? Nah. The way the racist little twit reacted to Cedric Diggory’s death pretty much knocks out any possibility that he’s got a decent streak. (Besides, every time his name comes up in an interview, JKR seems appalled that he has fans.) On the other hand, I’m intrigued by Millicent Bulstrode (identified as a half-blood in JKR’s notebooks) and Theodore Nott (a Death Eater’s son who has conspicuously _not_ cast his lot with Draco and his crowd). Those are two Slytherins with potential, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/18 "2005-02-11T22:34:35Z")
Yeah, I got tired of HP’s mood swings etc, but since my daughter just turned 15–JKR got it about right… I am anxiously awaiting the romance between Ron and Hermione. And HP and Ginny… Snape and HP have alot to learn from one another–and I don’t think they will defeat Voldemort until they learn to trust one another and work together. Snape has less excuse for his behavior than HP, but I see him as poignant at this point. What a lonely man he must be! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/19 "2005-02-11T22:47:04Z")
I actually see Snape as tragic at this point. I think he’ll have to die at Voldemort’s hands before the series is over. I predict he’ll die, to no one’s great grief (except Dumbledore,) and the rest of his story (and motivation) will only be revealed after that. So is Snape acting as the Order’s spy in the Death Eaters? Did he respond to Voldemort’s call on the night he reincorporated in the graveyard? Was he standing in the circle, masked, watching Potter duel with Voldemort? Did he, perhaps, try to save Harry again with another muttered countercurse, as he did in The Sorceror’s Stone? He admitted that he is a spy in the latest novel, and his skill at occlumency is perfect to counteract Voldemort’s legilimency. And what could have possibly caused him to betray Voldemort and become so trusted by Dumbledore? And I also particularly enjoyed the unveiling of James Potter as a thoughtless, cruel fuckhead. It was very unexpected, and a refreshingly mature touch of storytelling. It reminded me, oddly, of Spiegelman’s _Maus_ in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462/20 "2005-02-11T22:53:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Are Harry and Voldemort somehow the same person? Not quite I don’t think, but they are linked in some way that will only be severed at death. The snake-shaped some in Dumbledore’s office and the muttering of \*yes, but essence divided \* was a clue to that, I think. I think I shall be faintly amused that MS Word’s spell checker just fixed Dumbledore for me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-fans-a-question-please/289462.md?page=2)