# Harry Potter Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 25, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429 "2010-06-25T01:13:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/181 "2010-06-30T11:54:59Z")
Dean Thomas, but yeah, muggle family explains why he’d follow the EPL. What have I become? ---
**Author:** ![tiltawhirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@tiltawhirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiltawhirl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/182 "2010-06-30T12:23:39Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > That’s a good question. If Red were a mason, which I’m fairly sure he’s not, I’d say for sure he flinched at tilt. > > As a scum flinch, though, not as sure. Probably not Shadow. He could have been jumping at me thinking that I’d move on to Story next, but that doesn’t seem likely. > > So, still guessing the flinch was at the tilt vote, because he showed no signs of even noticing the other votes/unvotes. I even made sure to bold them like the nice mods told me to. > > Trying to cover for tilt just seems like such a… clumsy scum mistake, though. That’s what’s keeping me from getting 100% behind my own vote, heh. > > But the more Red tries to defend his stance, the less his arguments seem to make sense to me, from a town perspective. Maybe he just has a different idea of how town should play, but that just doesn’t feel like it to me. …but your vote on me was just a placeholder and the only one I had received. Did anyone think that I was in immediate danger from a single vote, enough for someone to feel the need to jump in & save me? Isn’t it more plausible that **Red Skeezix** is doing the same thing you are, i.e. pushing hard to find the smallest possible scum slip? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/183 "2010-06-30T12:40:52Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Dean Thomas :smack: I blame it on being awake for over 24 hours now combined with severe hockey withdrawal. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/184 "2010-06-30T12:58:55Z")
I’ve been thinking about the voting to prod people. I’m not a fan of LtL early–later it might become a valid strategy, but early in the game I generally tend to be a low-volume poster as I get my bearings, and it has no bearing on whether or not I’m Town or Scum. That having been said, I think that reasonable minds might disagree on the subject. I don’t necessarily think that Chip’s votes were no-accountability–I find early “me too” votes to be much more annoying in that respect. The vote-as-prod is a strategy that people have employed multiple times in multiple games. Sometimes they get called out as scummy, sometimes not. If I had time, which I never ever do, I’d go back and look at games in which something like this happened and see how they broke down–is it really more likely that someone who votes to prod another player is Scum? Is the lurker ever Scum? It would be a fun meta-game analysis that I’m entirely not up for. 😉 And knowing that info might actually help us here. Also, I’m not sure if I agree with Red’s analysis of whether or not prodding actually works. I’m more on the side of ShadowFacts in that one–it appears that the prodding got two of three people to participate at some level, and I’m not sure what’s going on with storyteller–it certainly isn’t like him to miss the start of a game like this. This game seems rather tepid to start out with. I almost wish for peeker to show up and vote storyteller so we can actually have something to argue about. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/185 "2010-06-30T13:14:06Z")
If the co mod starts voting you can be damn sure we’ll argue! ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/186 "2010-06-30T13:32:34Z")
I feel kinda crappy about posting a vote with only two posts to go on, but we’re rapidly approaching our last 24 hours and I need to get more vote in soon, as I’m not likely to be around tonight. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Good post, **Rysto**. I think we should def take that to heart. > > I remember in the scum pond game getting a little flack for not having claimed, though, at the same time. It’s always very confusing–should you share? Should you not? Tough decisions. This post immediately jumped out at me. My biggest problem with this was the fact that there really is nothing useful in this post at all. It’s barely – just barely – a step above posting pure fluff. Freudian says “me, too” to my opinion and that’s pretty well it. There’s no content here, no analysis, no nothing. This reads to me like a post that Freudian made for the sake of posting _something_. And in my experience, a scum player is far more likely to feel pressure to post something and at least _look_ like they are participating. Also, note the snuggle. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Voting for someone just for the sake of voting? is that the ghost of **peekercpa** I see before me? 🙂 Not much to talk about here, which really is my point. It’s really hard to allege a trend based on 2 posts, but this is the best that I have. **Vote Freudian** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/187 "2010-06-30T13:55:01Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This game seems rather tepid to start out with. I almost wish for peeker to show up and vote storyteller so we can actually have something to argue about. \ because this is my first time kind of semi doing something other than playing and hoping that everyone has an enjoyable experience, plus the fact you know i adore you: **vote storyteller**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/188 "2010-06-30T13:58:34Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > because this is my first time kind of semi doing something other than playing and hoping that everyone has an enjoyable experience, plus the fact you know i adore you: > > **vote storyteller**. 🙂 Might as well make it traditional: **vote peekercpa** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/189 "2010-06-30T13:59:36Z")
**unvote peekercpa** Seriously, though. There’s some information out there. There’s some stuff that it’s possible to get a sniff from. What we need is a good rip-roaring unequivocal accusation of scumminess, and I’m re-reading hoping to find just that. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/190 "2010-06-30T14:42:40Z")
Sorry, I’ve been kind of busy these past few days. I know, I know…anyway, I’m going to try to review tonight, like after five, and then make a vote. Sorry, all and **maha**. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/191 "2010-06-30T14:49:15Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Welcome to Mafia. 😉 > > As one of the Masons involved in the previously-mentioned debacle, I agree that Town should always consider who would benefit most from the information if it’s out there. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > (bolding mine) > > I’m glad **Rysto** got a meaty discussion happening on Day One, which is a nice change of pace from the usual rigamarole. I think his overall point (bolded) is really spot-on and pretty much indisputable: THINK about what the benefits and drawbacks are to revealing information you might possess before you reveal it. Measure twice, cut once. One of my Mafia flaws is getting worked up and posting emotionally, so this is particularly good advice for me 😃 Ok, I would like to think that I’m getting bits and pieces here. **Drain** , if you want to clarify anything for my benefit, please go ahead. Or if you would rather not rehash that… I just feel wooshed here, about something from a previous game. Especially after I ask you guys to be blunt. Related: **Shadow** , I would like to think that I too am one for the measure twice cut once, but where is that information once the game-state has changed, and a given set of moves a player has forces their hand? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/192 "2010-06-30T15:07:38Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > Wasn’t a serious vote anyway, obviously. Actually, I do think I have an idea how to form suspicions in day 0, but it’s not a very good one. Snipped. > [@Chipacabra](#): > > Defending myself: > > 1. My vote is pretty much entirely designed to encourage participation. In the games I’ve seen, one of the strongest scum moves is just shut the hell up and stay under the radar while town tears itself down. I don’t want to allow that. Snipped. Is the second post your “idea” from post one manifest? Has the idea improved in “goodness” that much in the 4-5 posts in-between? I can’t shake that you are creating a “Follow me Townies, for I have found the one and only way to deduce information, follow me without question, do not look at the man behind the curtain, and I will lead you into… … a town loss.” Type of situation. Don’t confuse you with the details. Don’t stop to ask if you yourself are Town. Just where I am at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/193 "2010-06-30T15:36:07Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > Hmm. Still sticking with that? I’ve explained what I’m doing, and I think I’ve been pretty clearly acting to stir up information, not to cover my own ass. It might not be totally fair, but Peeker has tainted my opinion of stirring, or pot stirring. In my book they are the same. At best, you are a newer player (but I don’t get that vibe, seeing as how IIRC you refer to other games you have played in, and wasn’t Mazatlan or what ever an advanced game?.) who doesn’t have a clue. At worst, your vote swapping (Are you on your 6th vote now?) is nothing but confusion, misdirection, and distraction. A Me Too! here for getting votes in with little justification, in effort to garner Town cred over a non-voter, all while not having to create a false reason to vote a townie. You are a distraction. I fear it is dividing my attention to much, in a game that is already divided. \*\* Vote Chipacabra\*\* And I know this probably invites a ton of heat on me. I would like to think that I am still learning. Let me anticipate that argument: “It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.” -Confucius I would like to think that **Rysto** , **Shadow** , or **Skeezix** are distracting the game as well. However, I can’t begin to disect that, based on how well I play the game. I think everyone would conclude I don’t play the game that well. \*\*I wonder if the “Don’t Say X” argument is cut from the same cloth of “Double Lynching” and other, older mechanics in older games. \*\* \*\* A big stinking pile of nowhere fast. \*\* Scum would love to throw a huge bag of attention as FAR away from them as possible at the start of each game. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/194 "2010-06-30T15:59:00Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Chipacabra(2): Red Skeezix, Meeko Red Skeezix(2): ShadowFacts, Chipacabra Freudian(1): Rysto \*\* So…24 hours left in Day One. Really. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/195 "2010-06-30T16:15:31Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > This reads to me like a post that Freudian made for the sake of posting _something_. And in my experience, a scum player is far more likely to feel pressure to post something and at least _look_ like they are participating. /snipped Do you find **Pedescribe** ([#113](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12625265&postcount=113), [#116](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12626013&postcount=116) or [#134](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12627902&postcount=134)) and **Little Plastic Ninja** ([#111](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12624889&postcount=111)) equally suspicious or is posting pure fluff less scummy than trying to disguise fluff as content? Speaking of posting for the sake of posting something, while I liked your soapbox speech and the discussion it generated, when you said, in reference to disclosing non-public information: > [@Rysto](#): > > This isn’t rocket science. I couldn’t help thinking you were either trying to poke someone who annoyed you in a previous game (and therefore the **Mhaye** speech would be appropriate) or were simply starting discussion for the sake of it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/196 "2010-06-30T16:32:07Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > /snipped > Do you find **Pedescribe** ([#113](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12625265&postcount=113), [#116](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12626013&postcount=116) or [#134](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12627902&postcount=134)) and **Little Plastic Ninja** ([#111](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12624889&postcount=111)) equally suspicious or is posting pure fluff less scummy than trying to disguise fluff as content? Pure fluff does not worry me too much. Pretty much everybody posts fluff from time to time. Freudian’s post jumped out at me because she was talking about an actual game-related post but didn’t actually say anything. To put it in scum-motivation terms, the motivation for posting fluff is that it’s fun. That motivation applies equally well to townies and scum. On the other hand, there’s a lot of scum motivation for posting contentless posts that address some part of the game. For scum, talking is dangerous. They could slip, they could contradict themselves, they could hem themselves into performing an action that they really don’t want to do. But not talking is also dangerous, because sooner or later the town will punish such behaviour. All too often in our games the best strategy for scum is to walk that line where you are posting enough to not be considered a lurker while posting as little as possible actual content. I don’t see a strong town motivation for doing such a thing. > [@](#): > > Speaking of posting for the sake of posting something, while I liked your soapbox speech and the discussion it generated, when you said, in reference to disclosing non-public information: I couldn’t help thinking you were either trying to poke someone who annoyed you in a previous game (and therefore the **Mhaye** speech would be appropriate) or were simply starting discussion for the sake of it. I posted it because I have observed what I think is a pattern in town behaviour that I don’t think is a pro-Town thing. I wasn’t trying to call out any specific player – in the two examples that I gave, the offending players aren’t even playing in this game. Those were just recent examples that cam to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/197 "2010-06-30T16:33:29Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Pure fluff does not worry me too much. Let me clarify this. A post that contains pure fluff does not worry me too much. If a player is posting nothing but fluff; that’s when I start to get concerned. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/198 "2010-06-30T16:39:17Z")
@ **Rysto** , thanks, it’s clear. When you said that it wasn’t “rocket science”, I thought you were being a little condescending and so I questioned your motives for giving a soapbox speech on something that you consider quite obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/199 "2010-06-30T16:43:25Z")
Gah, I hate first day votes: I’m almost never confident about anyone, and while I acknowledge that we have to “push” people and that voting can be a good way of both eliciting behavior and seeing who behaves strangely under pressure, I always end up feeling like I’m being a jerk by accusing potential townies of villainy based on (usually) small evidence. In any case, I’ve been nursing a few idle suspicions: I was initially concerned about **Rysto** when the semantic debate bubbled up in the wake of his post on information disclosure, especially when it went on for a bit, but he defended and clarified his points in a pretty no-nonsense way, and while I thought he was a bit antagonistic toward some of the critics, at this point I see nothing suspicious about the way he behaved during that discussion. Moving on, we have the **Red Skeezix** / **Chipacabra** dustup. **Red** got way too bent out of shape over the initial accusation, especially considering that it came on the first day. His immediate, subsequent posts gave me the feeling that he was “scrambling” a bit to establish a front of innocence, and even though he since seems to have evened out, the fact that his initial reaction was so out of whack with that of the other players is a huge, blaring sign. **Chipacabra** , on the other hand, just annoys me-his initial voting behavior was not atypical of day 1 players, openly voting to provoke a response, but the way he admitted that he was voting without having a clear suspicion in mind irks me: if you vote for someone, you need to be willing to back that vote up, and his comments sounded to me like he was trying to get a free pass- vote for people to see what happens, but since you’ve already admitted that you don’t have a logical basis for voting beyond your general strategy, if the person you vote for ends up being a townie you can expect yourself to be held blameless. I think this entirely defeats the purpose of voting, as randomly harassing players might help find scum, but it makes it really difficult for us to examine YOUR voting record and reach any conclusion about your behavior and possible undisclosed alliances from it. Finally, **Freudian Slit** hasn’t done anything to make me suspicious, but he is borderline-lurking, and being on the verge of ending a day with close to no idea about where he’s at annoys me. Lurkers almost always draw the group’s ire eventually, and this is only the first day, so I’m happy to give Freudian more time to play and establish a track record. Between **Red Skeezix** and **Chipacabra** I honestly don’t know: I find them both highly suspicious, and honestly if one of them were to be lynched on day 1 I would still keep an eye on the next one on day 2, because I think they’ve both shown cracks, and neither has done a sufficient job of convincing me of their guilt or innocence. However, at this time I think **Chipacabra** has been more detrimental to overall progress: he’s dominated the group’s attention with the disclaimer-filled rapid-fire voting, and frankly I’m so sick of hearing him re-hash the same points without progress in either direction that my eyes practically glaze over whenever I log on to find another long wall of quotations and text. Both he and **Red** look shady, but at this point I think **Chipacabra** has done a lot more to hurt the Town’s effort: he’s dominated a lot of the day’s discussion, and in doing so prevented us from hearing (and evaluating) more from a greater range of players. Because of that, I’m going to **Vote Chipacabra** Off the boarding school ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/200 "2010-06-30T16:49:44Z")
(psst … **Freudian** is a she) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429.md?page=11)