# Harry Potter movie - do they call the stone "Philosopher's" or "Sorcerer's"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 7, 2001, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981 "2001-11-07T10:06:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/1 "2001-11-07T10:06:11Z")
We all know that the first Potter book is called _Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone_ in Britain and _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_ in the United States. Appearantly, the movie will be released with different titles in the two countries as well. So here is a question to those of have been lucky enough to have seen the movie already: how do the characters in the film refer to the magical object in question? Have all lines that include the words “philosopher” or “sorcerer” been recorded twice, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Nukeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Nukeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nukeman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/2 "2001-11-07T11:02:28Z")
Good question, and I don’t know the answer as I haven’t seen the film, but I would be curious to know what the ‘sourcerer’s stone’ IS as the ‘philosophher’s stone’ is meant to be an alchemical term meaning the formula for turning lead (or base metals) into gold. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/3 "2001-11-07T11:17:04Z")
They use either, depending on which version you are watching. Each scene that features the Stone or the mention of it, was filmed twice with the alternative dialogue in place. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/4 "2001-11-07T11:20:37Z")
I know that here in Canada, it is advertised as HP and the Philosopher’s Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/5 "2001-11-07T11:30:17Z")
All the promotional material I’ve seen in Canada has “Philosopher’s Stone”. If it _is_ different in the States, that’s unusual, because English-speaking Canada usually followis the US in movie distribution matters, and is I believe considered part of the US _domestic_ market. \ The official AOL Time Warner site [http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/home.html](http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/home.html) has simply ‘Harry Potter’. It takes a terribly long time to load. You get to choose the language/locale: English, Deutsch, Espanol (no ~ over the n), Francaise (no , under the c, plis an extra e), Italiano, Japanese (not Nihongo or characters), then ‘UK’. That last goes to the UK site [http://harrypotter.warnerbros.co.uk/](http://harrypotter.warnerbros.co.uk/) The US site and the UK site appear pretty-much identical, but there’s a pop-up window advertising the premiere that just happened, and yes, the UK site says “Philosopher’s”, and the US says “Sorceror’s”. The FAQ on the US site [http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/platform/faq.html](http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/platform/faq.html) mentions that the site is in UK english: “Fear not, this is not the work of a Dark Arts Witch. We are simply following the English laws of spelling with this site…” and goes on to mention that UK and Europe got “Philosopher’s” and US domestic market got “Sorceror’s”. No mention of Canada at all. Anyone know _why_ the change to “Sorceror’s” was made? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/6 "2001-11-07T11:34:08Z")
Do children in the UK and Canada really have that much better a grasp of medieval alchemy than US children? I know why they say it was changed, and I assumed it was changed for the “overseas” audience rather than just the US. Having not read the book, let me ask if it’s that hard to just call it a philosopher’s stone and then, for the sake of those who don’t know what a philosopher’s stone is, just describe the damn thing within the story and be done with it? Of course **I** knew what it was – I used to play AD&D and had the _Unearthed Arcana_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/7 "2001-11-07T12:15:55Z")
it was changed for the US market exclusively, but this was way back when harry potter wasn’t the phenomenon it has become, and is a decision JK now regrets. Too late, though. They kept the same change in the movie because of the great familiarity each country now has for their particular title. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/8 "2001-11-07T12:27:40Z")
Why was it changed, anyway? Didn’t the publisher think American kids know big words? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/9 "2001-11-07T13:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*Why was it changed, anyway? Didn’t the publisher think American kids know big words? \*\* That’s one reason… or rather that American PARENTS would have a problem with big words. Kids will just accept the existence of something called a “Philosopher’s Stone” and an explanation thereof in the text. Parents, OTOH, fear having to explain: (Scenario(a)-- “Dad, what is ‘sorcery’?” “Sweetie, it’s doing stuff with real magic powers” ; Scenario(b)-- “Dad, what is ‘philosophy’?” “Er… um… well, it’s like, let’s see, uh… I kinda remember from Freshman Humanities… yeesh… something on the meaning of life and some other stuff on Being and Not Being and… and… hmmm… ask your mother when she gets home, OK?”) The other reason is that as something on the first novel’s cover, “sorcerer” sounds more flashy and exciting than “philosopher” and of course \ we just know Amurkans don’t buy anything that is not packaged in a flashy and exciting way \ _sigh_ another case of “dumb it down for the Americans”… ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/10 "2001-11-07T13:27:09Z")
Anyone who has problem electing a President because of whether bits of paper were punched properly NEEDS things dumbing down!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/11 "2001-11-07T14:11:35Z")
To sum up, the Straight Dope: In European medieval alchemy, there used to be a Magic Stone that you could make if you knew how, called a Philosopher’s Stone. You could use it to change lead into gold, or to make yourself live forever, the usual stuff. When the first Harry Potter book came out, the publisher was worried that the Yanks wouldn’t know what a “philosopher’s” stone was, that they might think it had something to do with philosophy, not magic, and that the book wouldn’t sell as well. So to make it absolutely crystal clear to the ignorant savages across the Pond what the book was about, they retitled the American edition “The _Sorcerer’s_ Stone”. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/12 "2001-11-07T14:49:22Z")
Off to Cafe Society. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/13 "2001-11-07T15:27:53Z")
How much do those at-home blood pressure measuring whatsits cost ? :eek: 😃 :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/14 "2001-11-07T23:04:49Z")
Y’know, I spent the entire first half of the book wondering what the heck a “Sorcerer’s Stone” was. Then, when they revealed it, I exclaimed (yes, out loud) “So why didn’t they call it the Philospher’s Stone in the first place?!?”. I mean, a few Americans know what a “Philospher’s Stone” is, but absolutely _nobody_ knows (or at least, knew, before reading the book) what a “Sorcerer’s Stone” is. How is “nobody” an improvement over “a few”? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/15 "2001-11-08T01:19:02Z")
And of course, the British movie **The Madness of George III** was changed to **The Madness of King George** for the US market. The reason being that Americans may have thought that it was a sequel to Georges I and II rather than being about George the Third. Hence they wouldn’t bother with it since they hadn’t seen the first two. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/16 "2001-11-08T03:38:06Z")
I saw a preview for the HP movie the other day, and the characters in the preview referred to it as the Philosopher’s Stone. As far as why it was changed, I didn’t know it was different in the original, and I assumed it was supposed to be a joke. You know, they’re magicians, so instead of the Philosoper’s stone, they have the Sorcerer’s stone? Sigh. I guess I’ll have to read the original versions. I’ve heard that the American versions have a severely curtailed vocabulary? Perhaps this explains all the chairs. The world may know, but I’ll probably never find out. 🙂 Tenebras ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/17 "2001-11-08T03:55:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > \*\*And of course, the British movie **The Madness of George III** was changed to **The Madness of King George** for the US market. > > The reason being that Americans may have thought that it was a sequel to Georges I and II rather than being about George the Third. Hence they wouldn’t bother with it since they hadn’t seen the first two. \*\* It’s a good story, but it isn’t true. The change was made because it was assumed that Americans wouldn’t know who George III was, a reasonable assumption, so it was necessary to include the word King in the title. Leaving out the III was purely practical–Americans as a whole would be unable or wouldn’t care to distinguish among the various kings named George. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/18 "2001-11-08T12:13:51Z")
My nephew says that there was a popular video game out at the time with “Philosopher’s Stone” in the title, and so the book title was changed to avoid confusion/lawsuits. Any gamers here know if this is so? ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/19 "2001-11-14T17:58:11Z")
According to the [Economist](http://economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=853542), > [@](#): > > Thus the film—called “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone” in Britain, but “Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone” in metaphysics-averse America… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981/20 "2001-11-14T20:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Number Six \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > > \*\*And of course, the British movie **The Madness of George III** was changed to **The Madness of King George** for the US market. > > > > The reason being that Americans may have thought that it was a sequel to Georges I and II rather than being about George the Third. Hence they wouldn’t bother with it since they hadn’t seen the first two. \*\* > > It’s a good story, but it isn’t true. The change was made because it was assumed that Americans wouldn’t know who George III was, a reasonable assumption, so it was necessary to include the word King in the title. Leaving out the III was purely practical–Americans as a whole would be unable or wouldn’t care to distinguish among the various kings named George. \*\* [Obligatory Snopes link](http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/george.htm). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movie-do-they-call-the-stone-philosophers-or-sorcerers/91981.md?page=2)