# Harry Potter movies: Is anyone else disappointed that Lavender Brown is now white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739 "2009-05-17T09:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/21 "2009-05-18T01:00:52Z")
In addition to the above comments, consider the Unfortunate Implications if Lavender had been black\* - Ron and Ginny BOTH dated a black person, only to ditch them for white characters (Harry and Hermione)? And the context of Ron and Lavender’s relationship - Ron only dated her to make Hermione jealous, and everyone, including Ron, thought she was a bit of a twit. Neither of those puts inter-racial relationships in a very good light, do they? (Not originally my argument…though I can’t remember where I first ran into it. Perhaps TV Tropes.) - I laugh at the idea that the credit of a random extra can be taken as positive identification of the character. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/22 "2009-05-18T03:29:25Z")
Actually, I seem to remember it was Angelina Johnson who was black. In the fourth movie, she is one of the 7th year students who put their names in the Goblet of Fire - there are other kids cheering and shouting “Go, Angelina!” as she approaches the Goblet. I think Fred takes her to the Yule Ball, not Alicia. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/23 "2009-05-18T04:02:22Z")
Yes, Fred took Angelina (who is identified as black in GoF) to the Yule Ball. Non-canon, but apparently she later ended up marrying George. I’m trying to find a physical description of Lavendar in the books but no luck yet. To me it’s more important that they are consistent with the books than with previous random extras who weren’t even called by name, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/24 "2009-05-18T05:02:19Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Also, I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that an interracial relationship of that nature may not be a very big deal in Britain. I have no idea, but I’d guess a white guy dating an Indian girl would be a smidge more significant across the pond. > > I’ll wait patiently for someone to tell me I’m way off base. 🙂 No, IMO you’re very much on point (not that I’m British, but I have spent a deal of time there). British racists aren’t geared to Africans, or black people specifically more than any other race. And as a matter of fact, I think a person referenced as “a black person” in the UK is more likely to be Jamaican or southern Indian than African. Not having seen the actress in question I can’t comment on her specific ethnicity. (But anyone else in this thread who feels moved to call an actress in a British film by a British author, set in Britain “African-_American_”, can you please give yourself one of these -\> :smack:) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/25 "2009-05-18T05:12:02Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Also, I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that an interracial relationship of that nature may not be a very big deal in Britain. I have no idea, but I’d guess a white guy dating an Indian girl would be a smidge more significant across the pond. > > I’ll wait patiently for someone to tell me I’m way off base. 🙂 It would be, but only because the couple are more likely to be of different religions and the Indian girl’s family are more likely to speak a different language at home. ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/26 "2009-05-18T05:24:41Z")
Yes, **Guin** you are thinking of Angelina Johnson, not Alicia Spinnet. Angelina is identified as black more than once, I’m fairly certain. > [@guinastasia](#): > > I believe there were quite a few interracial couples. What about Cho Chang? She dates, let’s see, Cedric Diggory, Harry, and Michael Corner. > > In Harry Potter, ethnicity isn’t seen as important as blood purity based on wizardry – whether you’re a muggle, Muggle-born, or from a Wizarding family, pure-blood, “mixed blood”, etc. > > If you actually READ the books, race, as we see it, barely rates a mention, except when it comes to physical description. This is all completely correct. Race simply is not a big deal in the Potter universe. As has already been pointed out there are a fair amount of interracial couples and it was never made a big deal out of, not even by any of the kid’s archrivals(Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, Parkinson, etc.). There’s 3 with Cho quoted above, Ginny dates Dean Thomas throughout most of Half Blood Prince, and though it’s not expanded on, there was a hint of a Luna/Dean pairing towards the end of Book 7. So I can’t get behind the OP’s rant. They needed to cast the role of Lavender in this film because she plays a much larger role than in the previous books. Whichever extra they had labeled as Lavender Brown was not necessarily right or able or willing to play the role. I really think this was a matter of getting the right actress for the part and not of changing her from black to white because she dates Ron. I think that’s a ridiculous claim. Now, if the character of Lavender was described as being black in the books, and they cast a white actress, that’d be different. But she’s not described as being one or the other, so they have a little leeway there. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/27 "2009-05-18T06:23:57Z")
> [@thetruewheel](#): > > While I agree that the producers probably could give a shit personally, they know plenty of fans obsess about crap like this to a degree that even I find alarming. I’d bet the farm that someone is paid to notice stuff like this. They knew they were pulling a slight switcheroo. Of course, if studios cared at all, that would happen. And unnecessary changes to adaptations of books with lots of fans wouldn’t be made, and basic physics, history and narrative logic would be respected, and details would be paid some sort of attention. But if that doesn’t happen in any other movie or series of movies, why would you consider the HP series an exception? This is ridiculous. It’s not a racial conspiracy. Nobody doing the movie knows who the Lavender girl is. Probably even the writer or the girl playing the damn part have forgotten by now. Grow up, people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/28 "2009-05-18T06:52:16Z")
If my original post is being perceived as a “rant” about a “conspiracy,” I expressed myself poorly. Let me try again. If nobody had ever been cast as Lavender, the producers probably would have defaulted to hiring a Caucasian performer. Since there _was_ a previous Lavender who happened to be black (though I agree she was basically an extra), I thought it would have been cool for the producers to say, “Well, we already depicted her as black, so what the hell, let’s follow though with that now that it’s a bigger part-- after all, it doesn’t matter.” Since both Rowling and the filmmakers do appear to be at pains to depict Hogwarts as both diverse and free of skin-color prejudice, I thought they might follow through in this way, and I thought it would be sort of a cool thing to do. So I was disappointed when they didn’t, and initiated a conversation to that effect. For the record, I don’t think the Harry Potter films are racist. I did use the term “racist” to describe the tendency to assume that any person whose race is unspecified must be white. This was probably too strong on my part, and was begging to be misinterpreted. I accuse the filmmakers only of failure to seize an opportunity to inject further diversity into the films. So there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hrududu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Hrududu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hrududu)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/29 "2009-05-18T11:23:41Z")
> [@](#): > > If nobody had ever been cast as Lavender, the producers probably would have defaulted to hiring a Caucasian performer. Lavender wasn’t cast in the previous films. The girl you are talking about is a random extra who some people have credited as being her. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/30 "2009-05-18T11:43:57Z")
Jo Rowling is always consulted on obscure things like “What does this character look like?” where it matters. Sometimes they do go off in another direction, after some discussion, but usually they try to adhere to her image of the characters (and locations, and props, and everything else) as close as they can. I suspect, therefore, that even though an anonymous extra has been presumed to unofficially be Lavender, the truth of the matter is the current actress is closer to the image Jo Rowling had of her. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/31 "2009-05-19T02:29:06Z")
I’ve only seen the first two films and read all of the books and somehow I “knew” that Lavendar Brown was black. I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned in one of the books. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/32 "2009-05-19T03:00:06Z")
> [@Hrududu](#): > > Lavender wasn’t cast in the previous films. The girl you are talking about is a random extra who some people have credited as being her. [Not according to IMDb.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1600284/) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/33 "2009-05-19T03:01:37Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I’ve only seen the first two films and read all of the books and somehow I “knew” that Lavendar Brown was black. I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned in one of the books. Nope, don’t think it is. The closest we get to a description of Lavendar is: > [@Half-Blood Prince](#): > > There, in full view of the whole room, stood Ron wrapped so closely around Lavender Brown it was hard to tell whose hands were whose. …Which kinda indicates that either Ron’s hands are very dark for such a pasty ginger-haired bloke, or Lavendar’s are kinda pale. 🙂 And yet, y’know what? All through the books I always thought she was black too. For some reason, the name Lavendar Brown gives me the impression of a pretty girl with light purple clothing, straight black hair, and dark skin. Dumb, but there you go. Total guess: even if the earlier extra credited as Lavendar _was_ black, maybe they cast a white actress this time around because they didn’t want another not-very-sympathetic, soon-to-be-ditched love interest to be non-white? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/34 "2009-05-19T03:02:08Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > (But anyone else in this thread who feels moved to call an actress in a British film by a British author, set in Britain “African-_American_”, can you please give yourself one of these -\> :smack:) I gave myself three. I don’t know WHAT I was thinking. Yes, it WAS Angelina. GAH!!! But like I said, the big thing in the Potter verse is if you’re from a pure-Wizarding family, or Muggle born. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/35 "2009-05-19T03:06:02Z")
It’s funny how people can have different first impressions…I always swore in my head Lavendar was the long blond hair, blue eyes, perfect figure type. Basic nightmare for Hermione, in other words. But evidentally the books don’t say either way. Maybe I was unconsciously influenced by [Marta’s](http://www.artdungeon.net/general/gryffindorgirls)drawings. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/36 "2009-05-19T17:59:25Z")
**Hrududu** said: > [@](#): > > Lavender wasn’t cast in the previous films. The girl you are talking about is a random extra who some people have credited as being her. Not exactly. IMDB lists the role as “Lavender Brown”, so it’s not like this is fans assigning the label to the girl, the movie did it. Still, it is a bit of a wash. I mean, I can totally see how a casting director charged with filling in extras for the classroom scenes would identify the roles by names from the book, even if the part is essentially backdrop (i.e. extra). But when the role becomes more serious to the story (as in the character is actually identified), then it becomes important enough to ask Rowling what the actress should be like. What would be interesting to me is if that character is ever referred to or about in the dialogue of the other movies. That would be more telling of whether the character was really Lavender Brown, or just a random student. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/37 "2009-05-19T22:14:02Z")
wasn’t lavender a big fan of the “woo-woo, see into the future” class and teacher? perhaps she was pointed out in one of the scenes in that classroom? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/38 "2009-05-19T23:39:09Z")
I always thought that she was lavender. Or brown. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/39 "2009-05-20T09:19:04Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Of course, if studios cared at all, that would happen. And unnecessary changes to adaptations of books with lots of fans wouldn’t be made… But if that doesn’t happen in any other movie or series of movies, why would you consider the HP series an exception? Because the HP books are so popular that losing the readers’ goodwill might actually cost the producers money. Harry Potter movies are different from other book-based films in that the books’ readers actually comprise a significant portion of the moviegoing public. It simply wouldn’t pay to alienate that many people. I can’t think of any other books like that. I agree that movies often butcher the book, but in this case it makes more sense for them to be faithful. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739/40 "2009-05-20T12:08:53Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **Hrududu** said: > Not exactly. IMDB lists the role as “Lavender Brown”, so it’s not like this is fans assigning the label to the girl, the movie did it. That’s something I’ve always wondered; who writes these things on IMDB? DO they come directly from the film producers or can fans “edit” it? Does anyone know if the credit is in the cast listing at the end of the film? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-movies-is-anyone-else-disappointed-that-lavender-brown-is-now-white/496739.md?page=3)