# HARRY POTTER question: Are there any black students mentioned at Hogwarts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537 "2013-04-12T19:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/41 "2013-04-12T23:41:28Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I know you don’t care about the films, but the first two actresses that portrayed Lavender Brown were black but in the later films they changed it to a white girl. :: shrugs :: The thread’s not all about me. I don’t intend to watch the movies, but I don’t care if y’all want to talk about them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/42 "2013-04-12T23:53:18Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > As I said, it is not an undertone, it is clearly a deliberate allegory of racism. I do not recall Voldemort (or anybody) caring a whit about anyone’s actual race however (although I also do not recall any non-white Death Eaters). There does not seem to be any any actual racism in the wizarding world. Harry and Ron date the Patil sisters and Harry dates Cho Chang without anyone, even any Slytherins, seeming to raise an eyebrow. There was one black kid in Slytherin - Blaise something or other, whose family had connections with Voldemort, or were at least sympathizers of the movement. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/43 "2013-04-12T23:54:04Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Gonna make a fool of myself here. I know Helena Bonham Carter (who played boss-level death eater Bellatrix Lestrange) has all kinds of English nobility in her ancestry, but does she not also have some melanin in her family tree? > > Now that I say that, I have no idea where I got that idea. Googling doesn’t turn up anything like that. Am I crazy? Her mother’s half Spanish, and half French Jewish. Maybe that’s what you were thinking of? Not the same thing, but… ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/44 "2013-04-13T00:17:48Z")
> [@Helena](#): > > There was a line added to the American edition (first book) that said Dead Thomas was black. IIRC, that line about Dean’s race was present in Rowling’s manuscript but was cut from the UK version. I remember reading on her website (which has since been redesigned, and I’m not sure if this content is still there) that when the book was originally published she was under pressure to make it shorter and a number of minor details were cut. The book was so successful in the UK that she was able to restore some of these cuts to the US edition. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > There was one black kid in Slytherin - Blaise something or other, whose family had connections with Voldemort, or were at least sympathizers of the movement. Blaise Zambini. He was mentioned in passing as a Slytherin student in some of the earlier books, but wasn’t actually described until _Half-Blood Prince_. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/45 "2013-04-13T00:22:27Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I phrased it the way I did because I was not sure whether, as Indian, they met Skald’s criteria. As a British book, they should. Indian/Pakistani is the largest non-white minority in the UK, so they’re basically the analogue of “African-American”, inasmuch as there _is_ an analogue, which is debatable. The UK, in general, is much much “whiter” in ethnicity than America. I wouldn’t be surprised if Americans in general found an unusual dearth of non-white characters - it seems to me to be pretty reflective of the demographics of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/46 "2013-04-13T00:26:11Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Blaise Zambini. Zabini. No m. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/47 "2013-04-13T00:44:09Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I didn’t know she’d married a Weasley, but I remember that when George Weasley (one of the practical joker twins) needed a date for the upcoming dance, he immediately yelled, “Oi, Angelina!” > > So, interracial dating is no big deal in the Wizard world. But her hair was made fun of when she was captain of the quidditch team. I think it was someone on the Slytherin team that said something like “why would anyone want to look like they had a head full of worms”. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/48 "2013-04-13T01:36:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Her mother’s half Spanish, and half French Jewish. Maybe that’s what you were thinking of? Not the same thing, but… Yeah, I don’t know. Half-Spanish is partway to Spanish, and Spanish has some Moor blood… No. I have no idea what I was thinking. She just looks exotic, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/49 "2013-04-13T02:09:59Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > As I said, it is not an undertone, it is clearly a deliberate allegory of racism. I do not recall Voldemort (or anybody) caring a whit about anyone’s actual race however (although I also do not recall any non-white Death Eaters). There does not seem to be any any actual racism in the wizarding world. Harry and Ron date the Patil sisters and Harry dates Cho Chang without anyone, even any Slytherins, seeming to raise an eyebrow. exactly this. the whole mudblood vs pureblood deal is the potterverse’s version of racism and prejudice. race is more or less irrelevant in that world. as mentioned above, there are many instances of interracial couples, and it’s never commented on, even by the bad guys. voldemort and his following persecute the muggle born wizards, and non humans, such as the goblins and to an extent fenrir grayback, who is a werewolf(and a death eater, but a lower ranking one). and yes, dean thomas, lee jordan, kingsley shacklebolt, angelina johnson,and blaise zabini are all described as black in the text. there’s been a thread about the lavender brown thing before, but IIRC i think some random background extra was named as being her in the earlier films, and they recast her for half blood prince when her role was expanded. i’m fairly certain lavender’s appearance is never described in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/50 "2013-04-13T02:34:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Fun fact - George Harris, who played Shacklebolt, was also the tramp steamer captain in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_: [http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/25281-15555.gif](http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/25281-15555.gif) And Luke Youngblood, the actor who played Lee Jordan, now plays the character “Magnitude” on Community. > **[Luke Youngblood](https://community-sitcom.fandom.com/wiki/Luke_Youngblood)** > > Luke Youngblood is a British born actor who has appeared on stage, screen and television. Youngblood had a recurring role on "Community" as Magnitude, a one-man party with the signature catchphrase "Pop Pop!". He is perhaps best known for playing... Pop pop! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/51 "2013-04-13T03:30:24Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > The UK, in general, is much much “whiter” in ethnicity than America. Cite? I don’t have numbers, but my impression after having lived several places in each of those countries is rather the opposite. Britain may not have such a high proportion of people of (ultimately) African extraction (although there are quite a good proportion of West Indians, who are quite as black as American blacks), and fewer East Asians, but it has \*a lot \*more south Asians. There probably are a smaller proportion of “students of color” (ones that we know about, anyway) at Hogwarts than you would find at the average British school, but I think this is more to do with a class imbalance in than a racial one. There do not seem to be any any working class students there (the Weasleys, despite being described as poor, really are not) and people of color (no doubt due to structural racism) tend to be concentrated in the poorer strata of society. As a representation of the racial mix you might find in a school for middle to upper class students (especially a private boarding school, which is what it is), Hogwarts is probably about right. Perhaps it is realistic that there would not be any really poor wizards, because, you know, magic! (Frankly I don’t get how they are not all living like millionaires.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/52 "2013-04-13T03:44:30Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Cite? > > I don’t have numbers, but my impression after having lived several places in each of those countries is rather the opposite. Britain may not have such a high proportion of people of (ultimately) African extraction (although there are quite a good proportion of West Indians, who are quite as black as American blacks), and fewer East Asians, but it has \*a lot \*more south Asians. If Wikipedia is accurate then the population of the [US is about 72% white](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity), while the [UK is more than 90% white](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Ethnicity). The US figures are cited as being from 2011 and the UK figures as being from 2001 so things may have changed a bit in the UK since then, but I doubt their population is less than 72% white now. The UK stats are split up by ethnicity while the US lumps everyone into broader racial categories, but adding up all the South and East Asians in the UK table I get 4.7%, which is about the same as the figure (4.8%) given for all Asians Americans in the US. So while I can easily believe there are far more South Asians in the UK, there must be far fewer East Asians. Black Caribbeans are listed as 1% of the UK population, half the total black population of the UK. The US is more than 12% black. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/53 "2013-04-13T04:11:31Z")
And it very much depends on where you live. You’ll see a lot more black faces on the streets of London than you will in Inverness. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/54 "2013-04-13T04:49:20Z")
A subtle but important point is that Harry Potter dated Cho Chang before dating Ginny Weasley, while she dated Dean Thomas before she dated Harry. I think that Rowling deliberately did this to show that both of them had no concern with the race of the people they would date, since Cho was Asian and Dean was black. Rowling never explicitly mentions this point, but I think it was quite deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/55 "2013-04-13T06:42:15Z")
Zabini was black and was described as such in HBP. He also holds a lot of pureblood views. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/56 "2013-04-13T18:24:46Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Fun fact - George Harris, who played Shacklebolt, was also the tramp steamer captain in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_: [http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/25281-15555.gif](http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/25281-15555.gif) Another fun fact- George Harris and fellow Harry Potter actor Michael Gambon play vicious drug dealers in the very excellent film Layercake. ---
**Author:** ![ski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@ski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ski)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/57 "2013-04-14T13:40:36Z")
It’s been years since I read the books, so I can’t remember, but are the white characters explicitly described as being white? I mean, if it doesn’t actually say they’re white because it’s not important to the story, then they really could be any ethnicity. Of course, it doesn’t have to refer to them as “white”, there could be words like “pale complexion” and such that would mean the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Renifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Renifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renifer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/58 "2013-04-14T13:42:44Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > The “mudblood” thing is clearly intended as an analogue of racism in the wizarding world, and it it is made clear that caring whether someone is “pure blood” or not _bad thing_. Voldemort and his followers care, and all the “good” characters do not. Indeed, cleansing the wizarding world of mudbloods (or at the least, reducing them to a clearly inferior status) and asserting the rule of pure-blood wizards over muggles seems to be the principal motivation of the Death Eater movement. Thus, in a way the central conflict of the whole story is a fight against a kind of (or an allegory of) racism. > > In a way, the whole story is an anti-racist tract. > > Yes, I konw. I phrased it the way I did because I was not sure whether, as Indian, they met Skald’s criteria. The Mudblood thing didn’t seem so much a matter of race but an “old-money” vs. “new-money” distinction that matters only to snobs like Malfoy. Sometimes it has racial undertones, but having an antagonist with that attitude is standard fare for boarding school literature, which usually comprises of wealthy students. Right now I’m reading a short story that takes place at a boarding school where one of the wealthy kids picks on the scholarship student. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/59 "2013-04-14T14:24:42Z")
> [@ski](#): > > It’s been years since I read the books, so I can’t remember, but are the white characters explicitly described as being white? I mean, if it doesn’t actually say they’re white because it’s not important to the story, then they really could be any ethnicity. Of course, it doesn’t have to refer to them as “white”, there could be words like “pale complexion” and such that would mean the same thing. IIRC Luna was described as being pale. Maybe Draco too. Other characters were described as having hair or eye colors that would be uncommon for a non-white person, e.g. the Weasleys are all redheads. There are also characters that are presumably non-white but who I don’t think are ever explicitly described as such, they just have names that indicate a non-European background. I don’t think it’s ever actually stated that Cho Chang is of East Asian descent or the Patil twins of South Asian descent. > [@Renifer](#): > > The Mudblood thing didn’t seem so much a matter of race but an “old-money” vs. “new-money” distinction that matters only to snobs like Malfoy. Sometimes it has racial undertones, but having an antagonist with that attitude is standard fare for boarding school literature, which usually comprises of wealthy students. I’ve heard others say basically the same thing, that they took it as more an allegory for class than race, but the repeated references to blood and the importance some characters place on the “purity” of blood strikes me as having a lot more in common with racism. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537/60 "2013-04-14T15:21:32Z")
Well it is an allegory of racism but she could have been less subtle about it. She was not obvious at all. What with the Muggleborn registration commission, blood status, people being rounded up for being muggleborn, Grindelwald, Nuremgrad, Dumbledore defeating him in 1945, one could easily miss that.:rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-question-are-there-any-black-students-mentioned-at-hogwarts/655537.md?page=4)