Harry Potter: Spokesman for the Me! Me! Now! Now! Generation

In My Humble Opinion
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You’re really Hogwarts’ own Severus Snape, aren’t you? :slight_smile:

OK, maybe not … but I think Snape does what you seem to think Rowling should do in her books. Despite the fact that Snape is constantly being set up to be the bad guy (by the flow of the story, which you’ve admitted is primarily from Harry’s point of view), we see that he is not. Now, what will happen in the next three books is anyone’s guess, but so far, in Snape, we have the author’s acknowledgement that, yes, someone who is rational, intelligent, and indeed, trustworthy enough to have earned Dumbledore’s respect can still not like Harry.

In fact, Snape’s objections to Harry are your own. He believes that Harry generally believes himself to be above the “riff-raff”, having led a life of privilege, including being favored by teachers. We, the readers, see that Harry’s wealth and fame actually contribute little to his ability (as another poster observed, mostly by dumb luck) to extricate himself from the situations into which he is thrust.

It seems to me that the root of your objection is that Harry is different from the traditional children’s literature protagonist, in that he has advantages. So he’s different – how is that bad? He’s unique, original, and maybe – just maybe – he appeals to a generation of kids who are advantaged compared to much of the world, and yet they still find themselves having crises of identity. This is Harry in a nutshell, IMHO: “I am advantaged, this world is not a level playing field, and to most of the rest of the world, I seem to be ahead of the game. Why, then, do I still have insecurities and problems and challenges to face?”

Life is not fair. People of ALL sorts have problems, and to downplay the problems of a wealthy, admired young boy – just because his problems are not the problems of the protagonists of favorite children’s books of your youth – is unfair both to the character and to the author who saw fit to create a unique character.

Harry’s popularity indicates not only well-plotted, intriguing books, but IMHO also is indication that children (and adults) identify with him.

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And for what it’s worth …

I am intrigued by Quidditch. The pressure on the Seeker is unfair, since the efforts of the rest of the team can be completely invalidated by the failure of a Seeker to catch the Golden Snitch. It seems to be a parallel of Harry’s role in life – other people depend on his efforts.

Other people are affected by my actions. Quidditch, and the whole of the Harry Potter series (IMHO) teach that lesson. How is that a bad thing?

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Just a little note of my own, here. I’m not even a tiny bit as well-read or as eloquent as many of the other posters here, but I’ve read the books and a few interviews with Rowling.

The popularity of the books, and the role-model status of Harry as a character, has been thrust most unexpectedly into Rowling’s hands. She never intended Harry to be a role-model to this degree, and that responsibility, I think, even now doesn’t concern her.

She’s had the story ideas for all seven books since years before ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ was published, and she isn’t straying from those original ideas at all. Harry’s status as a role model is therefore irrelevant, and merely a byproduct.

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BTW, Cantrip, it’s nice to see that I’m not the only one that read the Phule books. That and the Myth-adventure books are hilarious!

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I haven’t read this entire thread. I just want to say this. HP does not have absolutely everything going for him. He’s not good-looking like Digory was, or physically strong like Ron, or both, like Viktor Crum. As far as being rich, his parents did leave a heap of gold in Grigotts’ vault, but an inheritance is finite. Unlike Malfoy, whose dad has a job that keeps bringing in beaucoup cash, Harry realizes that if he splashes money about, it’ll be gone and that will be that. Like in book three, when he had to resist buying the many luxury items that caught his eye in Diagon Alley. Ron may be lacking in financial luxury, but he has two things that Harry doesn’t: a stable family and a lot of love. And furthermore, if no one’s brought this up yet, Harry spent ten years being abused and neglected by the Dursleys.. Is it so terrible for him to have it better at school?

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Well, that is bad. Most of the students only think they know him, when in fact, they only know his story. The other students put him on a pedestal…and god help him if he missteps and falls off that pedestal.

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And they don’t even know that very well, as evidenced by the Heir of Slytherin incident. They know Voldemort wasn’t able to kill him, and he was sent to live with a Muggle family - but only the people who actually know his parents seem to realise that his mother was Muggle-born, and the evil Muggles he was sent to live with are her sister and brother-in-law.

They just assume that Harry - whose best friends are Hermione - a Muggle-Born - and Ron - who might as well be - is the evil, Muggle-hating, Pureblooded Heir of Slytherin.

Harry’s a step away from being a Mudblood himself, and every student - except Ron, Hermione, and the Slytherins (who, through making his life thoroughly miserable, have learned about it) - thinks he’s out to kill Muggle-Borns and ‘Squibs’.

And, of course, would Harry have been suspected if he weren’t famous? Doubtful. They’d have assumed someone like Draco Malfoy - who after all, like Harry and Ron, was around the first attack, has just as much against the victims, is pureblooded, and is, to boot, actually a Slytherin.

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Manda JO, here’s a suggestion. If you think J.K. Rowling is corrupting today’s youth so badly, write your own books to counter hers.

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Harry Potter is simply #1. He may be famous but he is nothing like Gilderoy Lockhart who is self-obsessed and got his fame through cheating and lying? Harry got his fame for an incident that killed his parents and left him all alone in the world. He longs for his parents and so his highest moment of fame was also his greatest loss. The wealth is an inheritance from his parents which is also something that he got only 'cos of what he lost in the process.

Ron has these things. he has a super duper family but he does not have money and in part four you can feel his sorrow when he says that he hates being poor and Harry and Hermoine can’t say anything in response. Ron has his own gifts and shortcomings. He has too many brothers to compete with and has a desire to match their achievements but he cannot.

Hermoine is not really that much a friend like the Harry, Ron duo. Harry and Ron became fast friends on the Hogwarts express but they didn’t really like Hermoine too much in the beginning. It was only in the end of part 1 after the ogre attacked the bathroom, that they really became friends. She has a split personality. Hermoine has a thirst for learning and she is the one with a play by the rules attitude, she can also become a spoil sport at times. On the other hand she can get lonely since her attitude leaves little room for friends. That is when the other side of her shines through. She is caring and would risk breaking a friendship to do something that is good for him.e.g the firebolt incident where she tells prof Mcgongall. Also she hits malfoy and breaks a lot of rules clearly in complete contrast to her primary personality. She has a split personality.
The slytherins are bossy people who are just too full of themselves, the malfoys are racists and muggle haters and this is where the books condemn racism.
Neville is a very clumsy student but you cannot help loving him. He may be the joke of the town. e.g he is famous for his clumsiness. In schools some people are famous 'cos of their looks,charms,personality etc. others for their flaws. He is one of those and he is only good at herbology but he has a sad tale and his parents are at the mental hospital and suffered an excrutiating ordeal due to the cruciatus curse which left him parent less.
Well whats so bad about the books. I don’t think that any child should be deprived of the wonderful ride through hogwarts. The imagination drive of these books is immense and they open up whole new worlds for readers of any age group.

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For all the Harry Potter fans around there is another Harry Potter thread too:

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I quite agree, although I got a little tired of the Myth series by the time he put out “Myth-Adventures and Imp-ervections” (probably got that wrong) - the situations and writing were still funny, but frankly I don’t think the characters developed in sufficiently interesting ways to keep my interest.[/hijack]

Unlike the Potter books (ooh, what a transition!), in which I think all of the characters are developing, or at least certain of their characteristics are being shown to the readers, in very interesting ways. I shall be glad when the next three books come out.

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Yeah, the Phule and Myth books were more along the lines of fluff, compared to Potter. Damn, but they were funny though. I agree with you, though, the Potter books are a lot better in terms of character development. The farther they go, the more they have to deal with. First Potter learns to deal with not being liked by certain people, now a nightmare of a wizard summarily murders one of his peers in front of him, then gains the ability to kill Harry. And then the war breaks out…

Dammit Cantrip! (And what an appropriate SN for this topic…) Now you’ve got me drooling in anticipation. Again. After I shampooed my carpets and everything. sigh I’ll get you. Really I will. :wink:

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I’ll look forward to it. Especially if you continue to drool… :smiley: But FWIW, I agree with you. I ordered “GoF” from Amazon in February or March, and had to wait for July. I keep checking, but no advance publication date yet…

I’m curious - where do you think my SN is from? I meant it as a character in Sarah Caudwell’s Hilary Tamar series (which I highly recommend, btw - they are very dry (wit, that is), British mysteries cum comedies of manners).
[/hijack, promise]

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I’m going to jump in here again. Take a long walk off a short pier. Some are writers, good or bad, and some are critics, good or bad. But if you were watching a football game with someone who critiqued the quarterback’s performance, you probably wouldn’t say, “If you don’t like it, go out on the field yourself,” now would you?

That’s a garbage argument on the level of, “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.” Here’s a suggestion: if you think Manda Jo is so wrong, why don’t you write a scholarly, researched rebuttal?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

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I read it as the term used for magic spells of the smaller, oft times more playful, variety. As in most of the spells Harry’s been learning in class, to date. Thanks for the recommendation, by the way, now I guess I have something to kill the intervening months before the next HP book. :slight_smile:

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For starters let me just say that I did not read every post in this thread. I am interested in discussing the HP books and the relative writing merits of JKR. I don’t care to join a discussion on the difference between criticism and analysis. Also I wish to point out that I really like the HP books in general and I can do that while having problems with certain elements of the books. Just because I think some of the things are not very good doesn’t mean that I am plotting to kill all children.

I just recently read all four books and I found them to be entertaining reads. Personally I divide the books into two stories. There is a story in each book which is basically a Scooby Doo type mystery. By the fourth book I am finding this formula a bit tedious. In each book Harry finds out that someone who he thought was his friend is his enemy and someone who he though was his enemy is his friend. The other story is the important one. Harry finding his place in the world while the world itself is moving towards chaos and war. I felt that book two did little for the second story and in book 4 I felt that JKR was just trying too hard.

Harry Potter is an interesting character but he is wearing a little thin… He could be like the boy in the film ‘The Last Emperor’ about the last emperor of China. This is a boy who at age 3 was made the emperor of China and tried to deal with palace intrigue, a changing world, WWII and communism. He was indeed very privileged. To me it seems that JKR is a little too tied up with telling the story of each book and doesn’t spend enough time on telling the story of the seven books. I do think she is doing a good job with the interpersonal relationship between Harry, Ron and Hermione. (I was pissed that she waited until book 4 to tell me how the hell to pronounce Hermione.) However the kids are now 14 and I wished that Hermione was a bit more developed. Also the romantic/sexual tension for all the characters is very underdone. Two 14 year old boys alone would be talking about every girl school. The boys would be totally clueless about the changes that Hermione is going so that is realistic. However Harry is totally clueless sometimes. I can’t believe he doesn’t take his magical studies more seriously. He didn’t even know there was magic until a few days before he went to school and when he gets there he doesn’t seem interested! That just doesn’t make sense. This would be like Luke Skywalker getting his light saber from Obi Wan and then on the flight talking to Han Solo all time. It would make sense that Harry would study hard to make up for the total lack of knowledge. If Harry is the boy of destiny I think it is time for him to rise and meet it instead of waiting for it to come.

Quiddtch. Not the best made up sport. I don’t think JKR is a real sports person and she didn’t think this through very well. The seeker is way too important. The sport would not be as popular or have lasted hundreds of years if it was all about the seeker. Oddly enough the other positions seem to be tougher. The High School seekers catch the snitch before the other players score gets very high. The National Teams however the other players actually score enough points to affect the outcome of the game. If catching the snitch was worth 30 points and ended the game it would be much better. Then the work of the rest of the team would be much more important and compelling. But then again Pod Racing from Star Wars I is a badly thought out sport so I guess JKR is good company.

The Books I like books 1 and 3. Book 2 seemed to be just marking time and in book 4 I felt that JKR was trying too hard. The books follow a very rigid structure of Durselys/train/school/train/Dursleys. This is getting on my nerves. In the fourth book at one point (after the first trial I think) Harry wonders to himself ‘Gee someone might be trying to kill me.’ Hello! Someone has been trying to kill you for all of your life! Jeez get a clue. I can accept faults in a hero but stupidity is not one. In book four he faces a big fierce scary dragon, which is the first challenge of three in a very serious competition. After he cleans out his britches he is given a clue he must decipher to face the next challenge which if you apply any thought to at all would be tougher than the first one. ( a big scary dragon) Harry throws it aside and does nothing. This is my hero? This is someone to look up to and admire? I think not. (plus the clue is stolen from Star Trek IV The Voyage Home) The end of book four was also a mixed bag for me. The scene where Harry breaks down and cries in Mrs. Weaslys embrace was moving and well done. Harry undoubtedly never got a hug from a mother that he can remember and to feel her unconditional love for the first time while he is blaming himself for Cedric’s death is the emotional catharsis the books were needing. Also the reaction from his friends was well done. But having the kids get back on the train and do the same train ride home business that they do in the previous books is just wrong. The cards are on the table. Voldmont is back and Malfroy is with him. Sending Harry back to the non-magical world is stupid on Dumbledore and Black’s part. (and by extension JKR)

But I am looking forward to book 5 and will read it as soon as I get my hands on it.