# Harry Potter style magic user VS Modern soldier **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412 "2017-01-05T19:39:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/1 "2017-01-05T19:39:07Z")
For reasons of plot a challenge between the magic and non-magical worlds _(it all started by the careless use of the word ‘muggle’)_ has been laid down and accepted, it is to be between a single witch/wizard and a modern western soldier. Both are somewhat above average in skill and competence but nothing exceptional, and are physically an even match. The arena is an abandoned site several square miles in size with a good mix of urban industrial, forested and other mixed environments. They are given twenty-four hours to prepare both themselves and the battlefield, with the restriction that they can only use whatever they can personally carry to the site. So if they set a lot of traps etc that leaves less grenades/potions to use directly in combat. Both are ready and motivated to defeat the other by whatever means necessary and are perfectly willing to kill, but would be prepared to accept a surrender from their opponent. They start on opposite sides of the combat area at midday during the equinox _(so equal day/night)_. So who do you put your money on and why? How do you think it would play out? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/2 "2017-01-05T19:45:27Z")
Given the parameters, the wizard wins literally 100% of the time. It was established multiple times that a Wizard can put up a charm that causes muggles to walk into an area, forget why they were there, and walk away, leaving the wizard perfectly protected. All the wizard needs to do is put up one of these charms in an area, wait for the muggle to walk into said area, forget why he was there (or simply walk by without noticing the charm in effect) and the wizard pops out, “Avada Kedavra” boom. Dead. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/3 "2017-01-05T21:27:47Z")
I’m not familiar with Harry Potter’s spell list, but **Sir T-Cups** sounds like he’s got it. If the wizard can control the soldier, how can the soldier possibly win? Does the wizard have an invisibility spell? (Those are quite common in fantasy fiction.) Then he wins. Does he have intangibility (phasing through solid walls?) He wins. Protection against ordinary projectiles (like Wonder Woman’s bracers?) Precognition? Teleportation? Time-stop or time-rewind? You’re asking a hell of a lot from the soldier, even the best Special Forces veteran! ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/4 "2017-01-05T21:41:54Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Given the parameters, the wizard wins literally 100% of the time. > > It was established multiple times that a Wizard can put up a charm that causes muggles to walk into an area, forget why they were there, and walk away, leaving the wizard perfectly protected. > > All the wizard needs to do is put up one of these charms in an area, wait for the muggle to walk into said area, forget why he was there (or simply walk by without noticing the charm in effect) and the wizard pops out, “Avada Kedavra” boom. Dead. Well…that was unexpectadly easy… > [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re asking a hell of a lot from the soldier, even the best Special Forces veteran! So you’re saying those smart-arse smarmy wizards are _right_ to be like that? Boy I was really hoping the soldier could put up a better fight. 😛 (seriously thanks for the answers!) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/5 "2017-01-05T21:42:53Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Given the parameters, the wizard wins literally 100% of the time. > > It was established multiple times that a Wizard can put up a charm that causes muggles to walk into an area, forget why they were there, and walk away, leaving the wizard perfectly protected. > > All the wizard needs to do is put up one of these charms in an area, wait for the muggle to walk into said area, forget why he was there (or simply walk by without noticing the charm in effect) and the wizard pops out, “Avada Kedavra” boom. Dead. If the wizard is capable of silently casting spells, it becomes “One thought, one kill”. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/6 "2017-01-05T21:57:35Z")
What’s the spatial range of the Killing Curse? We’ve only ever seen them used at close range. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/7 "2017-01-05T22:12:51Z")
For the memory charm to work the soldier needs to be within it. When you’re capable of applying a few ounces of lead at 2000 feet per second from a long way off it’s advantage soldier. No need for hand to hand at all. Deploy a drone to detect the wizard and wait. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/8 "2017-01-05T22:21:32Z")
Yeah, the Wizarding World has a lot of abilities we have no counter for. Which makes it all the more surprising that they aren’t in charge of the world. Or that “wizard” isn’t the default human life form on the planet. That there are any muggles left at all. I mean, wizards as described in the books could defeat most alien or advanced human forces from any sci-fi world. Borg? Sith? Poof! Gone. Klingons? Stormtroopers? Didn’t even notice they were there. Except for the Q, the Organians, and perhaps the Doud and the Talosians. (or the Thalasians. Or the Thasians. One of them anyway…), who might have a chance. There really needed to be some limits on wizard powers. Like magic is a resource than can be used up, or something. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/9 "2017-01-05T22:33:54Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > For reasons of plot a challenge between the magic and non-magical worlds _(it all started by the careless use of the word ‘muggle’)_ has been laid down and accepted, it is to be between a single witch/wizard and a modern western soldier. Both are somewhat above average in skill and competence but nothing exceptional, and are physically an even match. The arena is an abandoned site several square miles in size with a good mix of urban industrial, forested and other mixed environments. > > They are given twenty-four hours to prepare both themselves and the battlefield, with the restriction that they can only use whatever they can personally carry to the site. So if they set a lot of traps etc that leaves less grenades/potions to use directly in combat. > > Both are ready and motivated to defeat the other by whatever means necessary and are perfectly willing to kill, but would be prepared to accept a surrender from their opponent. They start on opposite sides of the combat area at midday during the equinox _(so equal day/night)_. > > So who do you put your money on and why? How do you think it would play out? 🙂 Put my money on? The wizard has all the advantages. The only thing I can think of on the special forces guy side is that he is an exceptional sniper, able to do everything himself and that he’s able to get into such a good position and out guess the wizard, bringing him or her into a kill box, distract them maybe with explosions or other things of that nature then take them out with a very long range sniper shot when they don’t see it coming. Even in the Harry Potter-verse a shot to the head or heart is still a kill shot, after all. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/10 "2017-01-05T22:40:29Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Given the parameters, the wizard wins literally 100% of the time. > > It was established multiple times that a Wizard can put up a charm that causes muggles to walk into an area, forget why they were there, and walk away, leaving the wizard perfectly protected. > > All the wizard needs to do is put up one of these charms in an area, wait for the muggle to walk into said area, forget why he was there (or simply walk by without noticing the charm in effect) and the wizard pops out, “Avada Kedavra” boom. Dead. Seems to me that it all comes down to what all the wizard has in his bag of magical tricks. If he has some sort of concealment/anti-detection spell, some sort of lethal spell, and some sort of detection spell that outranges the soldier’s effective range with the rifle, then yeah, the soldier’s dead meat. But if he’s got a more peaceful set of spells, then the soldier may well make mincemeat of the wizard, as his job is literally to kill other people, and he has training to that end, including, but not limited to stealthy movement, weaponry, tactics, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/11 "2017-01-05T22:43:08Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yeah, the Wizarding World has a lot of abilities we have no counter for. > > Which makes it all the more surprising that they aren’t in charge of the world. Or that “wizard” isn’t the default human life form on the planet. That there are any muggles left at all. > > I mean, wizards as described in the books could defeat most alien or advanced human forces from any sci-fi world. Borg? Sith? Poof! Gone. Klingons? Stormtroopers? Didn’t even notice they were there. Except for the Q, the Organians, and perhaps the Doud and the Talosians. (or the Thalasians. Or the Thasians. One of them anyway…), who might have a chance. > > There really needed to be some limits on wizard powers. Like magic is a resource than can be used up, or something. That’s one of the reasons why I like the Harry Dresden books. Magic in that storyline has real-world limitations and drawbacks. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/12 "2017-01-06T00:41:23Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > . . . There really needed to be some limits on wizard powers. Like magic is a resource than can be used up, or something. > [@Flyer](#): > > That’s one of the reasons why I like the Harry Dresden books. Magic in that storyline has real-world limitations and drawbacks. Yep… Most really good fantasy fiction puts limits on mages. Spell-casting might take time, or require ritual conditions – a pentagram, candles, tome of ancient wisdom, and a human sacrifice. It might have a karmic limitation – such as “Curses rebound upon the curse-caster threefold.” Larry Niven famously explored the idea of magic as a resource that can be used up in his novel “The Magic Goes Away.” (Brilliant!) (When I write fantasy fiction, I set up explicit limits on what the mage’s powers are, using a variant of the DC Heroes role-playing-gaming system. The details don’t necessarily appear in the story, but I know what they are, and that helps give the story an appearance of natural balance.) ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/13 "2017-01-06T00:48:04Z")
Curious as to how you are going to give both of them 24 hours to prep the battlefield without tripping over each other or finding each others preparations. The soldier is going to happily set up a crate of claymores and other man traps while the wizard will be doing much the same. Give soldier boy a good rifle with a thermal scope and it’s going to suck to be a wizard. There’s also a lot of competing schools of wizardry for you to decide which rules apply to your spellslinger. Just like you would have to specify which zombie archetype would apply if this were a solder -v- zombies hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/14 "2017-01-06T03:15:51Z")
Does an invisibility spell conceal thermal radiation? (Need to know fast…) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/15 "2017-01-06T06:44:54Z")
_Accio Rifle!_ Rifle arrives. _Wingardium Leviosa!_ Rifle levitates out of battlespace. _Confringo!_ HE ordnance explodes. _Homenum Revelio!_ Muggle soldier’s whereabouts are (eventually) ferreted out. _Petrificus Totalis!_ Muggle soldier is paralyzed in place until he’s released by the wizard. _Incarcerous!_ Petrified Muggle soldier is tied up with magical ropes so he can be unPetrified long enough to agree to surrender. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/16 "2017-01-06T13:32:53Z")
But an average wizard probably doesn’t know Avada Kedavra or Imperio or any of those. An average Auror would absolutely beat an average soldier. But the guy who drives the Knight Bus? Or scoops ice cream at Florean Fortescue’s? They’ve probably never been in serious danger or actual combat in their lives. In that case, I’d give it to the soldier just because I’d expect the wizard to have no idea what to do, regardless of his “willingness” to kill. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/17 "2017-01-06T14:36:05Z")
This seems like a very biased scenario. In a war between muggles and wizards the biggest advantage the muggles will have is numbers. In a one on one of course the wizard will win, what about 1000 to 1? For every wizard there is approximately 4056 muggles. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/18 "2017-01-06T21:00:50Z")
^ Exactly. The strength of a soldier is that he/she is part of an Army. If I were the soldier, I would take my GPS into the arena, mark the coordinates where the wizard is going to be at precisely mid-day, and then call in an airstrike, artillery to fire for effect, a Tomahawk missile, and a Predator drone simultaneously on those coordinates. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/19 "2017-01-06T21:56:29Z")
Maybe “warrior” is a better term. Rambo, e.g. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412/20 "2017-01-07T00:40:25Z")
Supposedly if a wizard stumbles across a hobo with a shotgun at night, they win 50% of the time. I guess it boils down to reaction speed. (You can shoot faster than you could talk.) But preparation gives the wizard an advantage, especially if the wizard knows modern tech. If I were the wizard I would start on a broomstick to avoid claymores, etc, and if possible have a suite of defensive spells cast beforehand. (Can you start the contest already flying? Can you start invisible? Because if the wizard can’t prepare they’ll probably take a few bullets and drop before they can get a spell off.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-style-magic-user-vs-modern-soldier/776412.md?page=2)