# Harry Potter - wouldn't it have been ok if he had just minded his own bee's wax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605 "2002-06-23T22:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/1 "2002-06-23T22:49:38Z")
[SPOILERS] Sure, Voldemort got through the various traps, and got to the mirror… but afterward, Dumbledore told Harry that “only someone who wanted the stone but not to use it” could get the stone from the mirror. Well, that isn’t Voldemort. So if Harry and his friends had just stayed out of it, Voldemort wouldn’t have been able to get the stone anyway. In fact, by getting it out himself, Harry opened up the chance that V. might get it _from him_ Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/2 "2002-06-23T23:30:45Z")
Well, perhpas if Harry hadn’t taken action, there may well have been someone else who ended up taking the stone ‘not to use it’, someone who wasn’t able to fight Voldemort/Quirrel as easily as Harry apparently did. For instance, Quirrel may have used his authority as a teacher to trick another student, say Neville Longbottom, into getting the stone. Of course, Harry didn’t know about the catch-22 rule until after it had all happened. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/3 "2002-06-23T23:31:47Z")
That’s it, just go ahead and ruin the book for every…What!!! What spoilers si…Oh… _Shuffles his feet_ Voldemort didn’t know that “only someone who wanted the stone, but not to use it” because he was **evil, EVIL!!!** Pllus it makes for a nice “and here’s a lesson that can help you to lead a happier life and will make you a better person” type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/4 "2002-06-24T00:32:31Z")
Yeah but Voldemort not knowing makes it all the more safe where it was. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/5 "2002-06-24T00:35:41Z")
Quirrell’s presence in front of the Mirror of Erised towards the end makes it pretty clear that Voldemort had a reasonably good idea of where the stone was hidden after it was removed from Gringott’s. And who knew what lengths Quirrell might have gone to obtain the information on retrieving the stone? Taking hostages? Voldemort has already demonstrated that he isn’t above murder, even the attempted murder of a toddler. ---
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/6 "2002-06-24T00:50:10Z")
**"only someone who wanted the stone but not to use it"** Quirrel didn’t want to use it. Rather, he wanted nothing more than to present it to his master. That’s why the Mirror of Erised, which showed one their heart’s desire, showed him (Quirrel) presenting it to Voldemort, rather than him using it to make gold, elixer, etc. I suspect that the stone would have been in jeopardy had Quirrel eventually stumbled on the proper point-of-view. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/7 "2002-06-24T01:05:59Z")
But if Harry hadn’t interfered then their wouldn’t have been a book. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/8 "2002-06-24T01:51:03Z")
Well no, they could have just done a better job closing that little plot hole. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/9 "2002-06-24T01:53:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Well no, they could have just done a better job closing that little plot hole. \*\* It’s not a plot hole…it’s just part of Harry’s personality that he can’t mind his own damn business. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/10 "2002-06-24T03:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* > > It’s not a plot hole…it’s just part of Harry’s personality that he can’t mind his own damn business. \*\* Which fits him perfectly. He’s 12 years old. I don’t think the Potter books are masterpeices, but Rowling seems very good at presenting the motivations of kids about that age; they’re unsure of themselves, good hearted but short sighted, nosy, curious, and forever worried about acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/11 "2002-06-24T04:03:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* > > It’s not a plot hole…it’s just part of Harry’s personality that he can’t mind his own damn business. \*\* Exactly. And if the adults **around** Harry would attend to **their** own damn buisiness, the books would be really short too. (Am I the only one that thinks if Dumbledore had heard of background checks, or used the magical equivalent of a metal detector on a few occasions, most of the HP books would go right out the window?) ---
**Author:** ![ratty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@ratty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/12 "2002-06-24T04:38:16Z")
**Mighty Maximino** , you’re right. For being Super-Ultra Wizard, Level IV, or whatever, ol’ Albus is surprising slow on the uptake. Voldemort is _living in the back of Quirrel’s scalp_, and Dumbledore has no clue? A simlpe _turban_ fools this guy? Not to mention the fact that, when not in his head-lounger, Voldemort is running around in the woods _right next door_ and threatening an already endangered species. WTF?! This guy is the best wizard they’ve got? No wonder they’re in so much freakin’ trouble they have to rely on a bunch of kids to save them- Samantha from **Bewitched** was a better wizard/witch! So, this can mean only a few things: 1. Dumbledore is a moron. 2. Dumbledore knows it’s Harry’s destiny to eventually defeat Voldemort and save the world, so he refuses to interfere. 3. Dumbledore is secretly in cahoots with Voldemort. ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/13 "2002-06-24T07:18:06Z")
My biggest beef with Harry Potter is that Hogwarts is supposed to be **even safer** than Gringotts, which has magically locked vaults thousands of feet below the ground guarded by **dragons**. But what do they protect the stone with at Hogwarts? A bunch of **puzzles** that three 11-year-old kids can figure out! What is this, The 7th Guest? Now, if you had some D&D spellcasters protecting the stone, they would have started out by surrounding it with a password-locked _forbiddance_, followed by a few _walls of force_ and _symbols_ of death, and topped off with dozens of mundane traps such as a 50-foot-deep pit filled with poisonous snakes. True, the adventurers would probably get past it anyway, but they’d have to be at **least** 18th level. Imagine the look on Harry Potter’s face as he steps onto the chessboard, only to activate the hidden _teleportation circle_ which sends him into a magically-locked room containing an angry balor! ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/14 "2002-06-24T10:15:59Z")
- 1. Dumbledore knows it’s Harry’s destiny to eventually defeat Voldemort and save the world, so he refuses to interfere. \* This is quite likely actually. Professor Trelawny’s first prediction could have been something about Harry beating Voldemort. Besides Dumbledore gives Harry the invisibility cloak and says ‘use it well’; he clearly wants him to do all the heroic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/15 "2002-06-24T11:21:37Z")
**OpalCat,** it’s a plot hole, no question. Rowlings isn’t particularly good at anticipating the inconsistencies her magic causes, and ends up going to great lengths to make things seem reasonable. (To be fair, the Oz books often encountered this problems, too: if you have a magic belt that can see anywhere, how can enemies ever hide from you?) What’s also feeble about the setup at the end of the book is Harry and friends deciding to confront Voldemort, until they get a little further, then suddenly it occurs to Harry how urgent it is to get to Dumbledore. There are plenty of other places the Potter books make weak sense. Harry despises the Forecasting teacher, but signs up for the class again? The Malfoys are obviously dark wizards, but Draco is allowed to come to Hogwarts? (Bet Draco appears in the next book, too.) Ron is allowed to use a broken wand that causes random damage to himself and others? And then there’s the convenient “no one can Apparate at Hogwarts”, if they could imagine how difficult “tracking somebody” would become? Darn hard to write about, in fact. However, Dumbledore’s behavior isn’t one of the inconsistencies. From what Harry says, and Dumbledore’s actions, it’s clear that “he knows pretty much everything that’s going on at Hogwarts”. From a number of Dumbledore’s statements, one definitely gets the impression he’s “giving Harry rope” so he can learn how to handle himself independantly. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/16 "2002-06-24T14:26:26Z")
Further to plot holes - is there any one who can explain the Tom Riddle geneaology? Because a trawl through Harry Potter fan sites only served to confuse me further. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/17 "2002-06-24T16:25:09Z")
Tom Riddle is apparently descended from Salador Slytherin himself. However, more recently, his mom died while he was young, and his dad remarried. His father was named Riddle, though I’m not sure if we ever hear the full name. Voldemort killed his father, stepmother, and half brother, who was _also_ named Tom Riddle. This might be some cause of confusion. Taken from Book 4. Voldemorte’s basic motive is, at the root, self-hatred. He hates muggles, and I think he sees himself as something disgusting, hideous. He despised his father for abandoning his mom and himself when the senior Riddle found out about magic. I also think he sees the conquest of wizarding world as the start of something more. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/18 "2002-06-24T17:31:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bifar \* > \*\*\* 2) Dumbledore knows it’s Harry’s destiny to eventually defeat Voldemort and save the world, so he refuses to interfere. \* > > This is quite likely actually. Professor Trelawny?s first prediction could have been something about Harry beating Voldemort. Besides Dumbledore gives Harry the invisibility cloak and says ?use it well?; he clearly wants him to do all the heroic stuff. \*\* Possibly, but . . . [spoilers for Book 4] In **GoF** , Albus’ reluctance to come out of his office actually results in the death of another student, and the removal of a useful witness forever. Somehow, Dumbledore didn’t notice for a whole year that someone was masquerading as a good friend of his, didn’t notice that the trophy was replaced with a dangerous artifact, and didn’t seem to have his act together. Actually, that bit of Book 4 didn’t make sense to me anyway. There was a huge crowd outside the hedgerows, but no one was actually watching the event? What were they doing, staring at the plants? You’d think there would be a magical Jumbotron so that the crowd could, you know, actually see the action, so that when the two kids disappeared someone might bestir themselves to go take a look. I generally like the HP books but I think the adults are complete morons! ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/19 "2002-06-24T17:34:02Z")
The real reason the kids do all the action is that it’s a kids’ book. I bet 10-yr-olds reading it wouldn’t see so many inconsistencies in the way the adults stand back and the kids do all the work. From a child’s POV, that is often how the world works. Quirrel did want to use the stone; he wanted to use it to give to his master, who would then use it. It amounts to the same thing. **bifar** , it’s Professor McGonagall who gives Harry the cloak, not Dumbledore. You’re right that he does seem to have a rather laissez-faire attitude towards Harry, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605/20 "2002-06-24T17:37:45Z")
HI. This is my first post after years of lurking so…gulp! Here I go. Harry is one of my favorite subjects and I just read the 1st & 2nd books again, and am on book 3. Voldemort’s birth name is Tom Marvolo Riddle. His mother’s side was Slytherin but a detailed lineage wasn’t offered. Personally I think voldemort wants to control the wizarding world (typical antagonist). His personal hatred for Harry is probably going to get in his way, he’s obsessed with it. Also, try to keep in mind that these books (and the movie) were written for kids primarily. I’ve never read a children’s book that didn’t have some kind of plot holes. Usually of the type: If the adults weren’t such idiots maybe there would be no plot. Look at most kids movies? (Like the Goonies for example) Besides, in book one, Snape has a fairly good idea the Quirrell is after the stone. Why didn’t he mention it to Dumbledore and they could give ol Quirrell some of the truth serum (from book four)?? I get the feeling that staff members don’t talk to each other much at Hogwarts. Besides, she didn’t think of it until later. That’s the trouble with writing a series of books.😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-wouldnt-it-have-been-ok-if-he-had-just-minded-his-own-bees-wax/115605.md?page=2)